Episode 824: The Art Of Hiring an A-Team

 Sometimes, when it comes to hiring, you just get lucky. In this episode, Kiera talks about the art of hiring: the good, the bad, and the lessons that come from both. You’ll hear advice on…

• How long you should wait to know if you’ve hired the right person

• Why it’s important to be practical when hiring, not emotional

• What hiring someone complementary to your style means

• And more

Episode resources:

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Practice Momentum Group Consulting

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Transcript:

Kiera Dent (00:00.662)

Hello, Dental a team listeners. This is Kira and welcome to the podcast. I am so happy that you are here. I am so excited to be podcasting with you today. I hope you're just having an incredible day, wherever you choose to be, wherever you are in this beautiful planet that we get to call Earth. I just hope today's an awesome day for you. And I'm excited because today's podcast topic is actually gonna be a really fun one. I keep a list on my phone of all the podcast topics and things that come up to me, things that people post online, people that...

our own coaching calls, different things with our private one-on-one clients and also our group coaching clients. And so I'm just really excited today. Today's a fun topic and it's on how long does it take to build an A team? And I'm actually getting ready to go speak in San Francisco. I'm super excited to go to a study club. Yes, we do speak at study clubs. So if you want Dental A team to be at a study club, be sure to reach out. Hello at thedentalateam.com. Happy, happy, happy to help out that way. But

It was interesting because when we surveyed this group of people, I like to build content, just like I like to build consulting that's custom to that group. I like to build my speaking topics around what that group would want to talk about. And so one of the interesting things this group said was some of their pain points were that they really struggled with having this team turnover. And it was interesting because they feel like...

And it was like hiring and retaining the right people seems almost impossible was one of the common themes within a group. So I'm super excited to go chat with them. But I thought that this might actually be a really good podcast for you guys, because I think so many of us feel like, oh my gosh, every other practice has it put together. My practice is the one that's falling apart. I'm the dentist who can't hire and retain a great team. And I just want you to know that you're not alone.

that every single practice goes through this. And so the question of like, how long does it actually take to hire an A-Team? I just thought would be a really fun topic for you guys. So before we get started, don't forget, Dental A-Team's mission of the podcast is to positively impact the world of dentistry in the greatest way possible and to be in the ears listening of over a million people within dentistry. So I need your help.

Kiera Dent (02:03.31)

Please share this with someone today. Please go leave a five-star review. That way we stay on top of the podcast search when people come in and look for dental. You guys have been with us for so long. We are one of the longest standing podcast that is one of the top dental podcasts and that's thanks to you guys as listeners. So please, if you're new, welcome. I'm so happy you're here. If you're an OG who stands for, in my opinion.

I mean, it's original gangster. I used to think it was like oldie but goodie. Like you've been around since the beginning. That's not what it stands for. But if you're an OG or if you're a brand new person, welcome, I'm so happy you're here and please just share it. It's kind of like that ripple effect. Every person you share it with will then share it with someone else, like the friendship bread and it will just keep going on and on and on. And that's our goal is to just like spread positivity with practicality. And so today, how long does it actually take to hire and build an A team?

So I'm gonna speak from my personal experience and then I'm also gonna speak from like coaching hundreds of practices. We do our group consulting. So if you're new here, welcome. We have a group consulting called Practice Momentum that does follow a 12 system course, helps you build the foundations of your business. Really great for you new offices who are new practice owners or you've maybe been there and kind of wanna like dip your toe into consulting. It's a phenomenal consulting program that way. You still get access to the consultants every single week in what we call Ask Consultants Everything. So kind of like office hours.

and you have a community of people. We track your numbers, you guys post your scores up there. You can do it anonymously or individual, but really getting you guys to like learn the foundations and the basics and the 12 systems of a practice. And then we have our private one-on-one consulting where we do custom consulting to you, where it's really about your practice, your needs, all the different pieces. We work with your team directly. In the group consulting, we have team training every month as well. So it's super fun. We teach you doctor something and then we teach your team the same thing. And there's CE in both of them. And

So either way, I just have found that there are patterns of building these A teams. And it's interesting because as practices build and evolve, at the beginning cashflow is tight. So when you first start your practice, usually cashflow is tight, it's hard to hire people. And so we end up not maybe getting as strong of players as then when you get a little bit more advanced, you have more cashflow. So you can hire these more advanced players. And then when you become really, really profitable, then you're really getting into that C suite, but sometimes like C suites or like higher end executives or people who are getting paid more.

Kiera Dent (04:17.538)

they oftentimes aren't as agile and flexible. So it really is this like, just so you know, it's kind of like the scale. I think of it as like a speedometer, right? Like we're like gaining momentum, gaining momentum, and then we hit prime and then we kind of fall over. I understand that a speedometer, like as you get further to the right, you're going much faster. Sometimes that works in a practice, but building an A team, I think sometimes you just get lucky. So I just want to like shout it out to you, hiring is an art and like we do our best and we use the tools around us, but just know that

Sometimes it's a swing and a miss and that's okay. Because there's all the different pieces we're trying to work on. So we're using the culture index, we're using disprofiling, we're using any type of personality quiz, we're writing ads specifically to that person so we get better and more, I think, just like closer to who we really want to hire. And then we work on like, you got to make sure the pay range is right, you got to make sure their hours are right, they've got families.

So there's like all these factors that go into hiring and retaining these people. So I feel like, kind of like in real estate, it's all about the buy, it's all about the hire. And I am a huge proponent of we fire fast and we hire slow and we make sure it's the right person. But even in hiring slow, I'm really big on making sure within their first 30 to 60 days, this is the right person. And that comes from very consistent onboarding, it comes from consistent check-ins and then being okay to call it quits if it's not going to work because.

like let's have our ideal team and let's make sure that it's the right perfect fit as opposed to trying to make them the perfect fit. And I think so often we dread the suck of onboarding. I know I at least do, but I would rather go through the suck of onboarding than the pain of long-term people that I then have to terminate and fire. So just so you know, for me, I felt like my first probably four years of dental aid team were really hard to bring on an aid team.

I play it slow guys, I play it safe and I am always pro being cashflow positive because I think it helps me sleep at night. Other people are totally fine to be cashflow negative. For me, my goal has always been that I will never ever lose money as a business and so I just wasn't willing to put myself into that space. Now I got lucky. I mean, you look at Tiffany, she's been with me since honestly almost day one and Tim is probably the best hire. Like she's an incredible hire. She's been a great consultant. She's evolved with me over the years.

Kiera Dent (06:35.798)

But I think sometimes we just like strike it and we get lucky. And I feel like with Tiffany, I got lucky. Like fate brought us together and she's incredible. I feel like it's a yin and a yang. We're literally born on the same day. I feel like it was like two souls in the world that were meant to be twins. Ended up finding each other. And Tiff has just been this incredible person, perfect yin to my yang. She can present, she can talk like me, but that was just truly pure luck. I used my network. I reached out to people, told them I was looking for this. Tiff was not originally hired to be a consultant. She was hired to be a trainer or a.

recruiter for another company I had at the time. And then I also got really lucky. My first ad hiring a personal assistant, her name was Kaylee Taylor, and Kaylee was with me for about three years, and I just really got lucky. I also hired a friend who helped me and Tiffany, her name was Ellie, and she was with me for a year, and she was just a good friend that I knew I could trust that could grow me. So I feel like there was a time where I just got pure lucky with some of the hires, and I think some of you probably will feel that way.

But then when Kaylee left and it was 2020 and we had the great resignation, it became hard. And that's when I started hiring bigger positions. I started hiring our marketing team. I was hiring our sales team. I was hiring more consultants to come on board. And what I was noticing is I was an emotional hire and I wasn't a black and white hire. So know yourself too. If you're more emotional, I ended up bringing in someone who helped me hire people. They weren't.

They weren't tied to the company. They weren't there. They knew dentistry and they were really just a fantastic person who just honestly helped me hire. And I did pay for a recruiter for a while that just knew who to go look for as opposed to me doing it. And I will say that's where Britt came in. That's where Dana came in. That's where Zach came in. I had quite a few great hires from that recruiter, but we also had some really rough hires from that recruiter too. But what I found is like your business is this ever breathing organism basically. And so as people come in, they're feeding life into it.

And you're growing and evolving as a leader too. So I think a lot of it is like when I started to do personal work on me and I started to do ownership and we changed the culture. I started doing Friday fives. I started having our team read extreme ownership. I read the five dysfunctions of teams. We read traction and we put traction into place and I expected people to come. And we started building quarterly rocks. Like I felt like I built the structure in the company that then people were attracted to and when you're new startup, just know like you're going to go through it and you're on this cashflow piece.

Kiera Dent (08:53.59)

but being intentional that you hire people who have the mindset that they wanna be there. Do not hire a hygienist who's been around for several, several years, and they don't wanna be in a startup if you're a brand new practice owner, because you also wanna bring in people that have your same energy level. Like I was chatting with a doctor today actually, and where they are in the phase of life is very different than where their office manager's phase of life is. And so whether you're on the exiting side of your career or the entry side of your career, you wanna pair with someone.

who actually has your same energy flow. Sometimes there are practices that are bought and the team was with that other doctor for so long. Well, they're kind of a retiring team that doesn't have the young energy of a brand new doctor. Whereas that brand new doctor has loans, they're hungry, they're excited. You need to make sure your team is matching. And sometimes we wanna hire people with experience, which is totally fine. But we also need to make sure that we're hiring people that are going to grow and have the same energy and be in the same phase of life with us. Like I am not a good hire.

for someone who's on their way out of their practice. I'm gonna come in with all the energy, all the spice, all the funnel. Unless you wanna like grow that practice for the next year to get the best multiple on it, then I'm your girl. But I'm just not a person that's going to be a good fit for someone who's like more on the retiring stage of their life. So also when you're hiring, make sure that these people fit your same energy and what you wanna do with your life. Because I really think it's all about like the hire or the buy in real estate, really can help you retain the right people. And so...

But then also just give grace you guys my first marketer I hired shout out to her. She's awesome. She still works with us remotely on some different things, but I didn't know what the heck I was doing and I had to lean on her to really show me what a marketer could and should be doing my first salesperson. I heard I don't know what the heck I'm doing. Like it was a total botched mess and like thank goodness it worked out but just realize that your first office manager your first biller your first hygienist. You might not know how to work with them and lean on them to help you know.

but know that you might outgrow them and they might outgrow you and that's okay. I think we have this, I guess, illusion that teams are meant to be with us forever. At least I did. And I felt like if I was a good boss and my team would wanna stay with me forever. And I started realizing as I watched hundreds of dental practices that teams aren't meant to be forever. And like I say that, and it almost like breaks my heart a little bit because you want your team to be with you forever.

Kiera Dent (11:16.214)

but they are growing people, you are a growing business. And sometimes it's like we're a good fit and we're there together, but other times they're on their own path and you're on your own path. And so be grateful for the time that they're with you. Learn from them as they turn over, ask them for feedback of like, hey, I'm so grateful you were here with me for this time. Please make me a better boss and a better employer for our next people we hire. What would be one thing you love and what would be two things that I could change for the future people to really have a better experience?

And be SM honestly, sometimes it ends negatively and you don't get that exit interview and that's okay. But go through and look for the patterns. What happened? Why did we get here? What was the cause? How could we have onboarded them differently? How could we have given better feedback to them? Because people oftentimes don't leave jobs, they leave bosses and leadership. And so when I look at that, I think, okay, was this a decision I wanted? Because sometimes I outgrow people too. And if they're not willing to rise with me.

they're not going to be with me forever either. So I think it's this idea of like, how long does it take to build an A team? For me, it was about three years before I felt like I really got some key players in there. And then really at like year five is when I feel like I started to hit my prime and my momentum. Some people get there faster. Some people it takes longer, but also just realized, but I had like two fantastic hires from day one almost. I would say Ellie and Tiffany, two fantastic hires right from the get-go.

Ellie left and Kaylee came in. Kaylee was my personal assistant when Ellie was leaving. Kaylee took over that. And then Kaylee was gone in August of 2020 and I hired Shelby in January of 2021. And so for me, like I was only without a key player really for those months and then Shelby came right in and replaced that and Shelby was my next door neighbor. So for me, I've had like Tiffany and Shelby or Tiffany and Kaylee, I've had a core consultant or that would be like maybe a core hygienist or front office.

And then like a core dental assistant would be the equivalent of like what I've had since the beginning of my business. Now we don't always get lucky. I mean, but really, you know who you need as a good yin to your yang. It's funny. Shelby, Kaylee, Tiff, and I all have very similar personalities. We're really like good friends. But as the business has evolved and I knew I needed to bring in operations, Brittany Stone is a very different personality than me. And I remember being at a conference and they said, don't hire people that are like you, hire people that compliment you.

Kiera Dent (13:34.954)

And that was a good shift for me because I was always hiring my friends, people I'd want to hang out with. And I had to realize like, maybe I'm not going to hang out with these people, but they compliment me. I mean, Britt and I do hang out and I really do love all the people on my team, but that doesn't mean I need to be best friends with them. And I think that's moving from like an employee mindset to an employer boss mindset of I'm not hiring people to be my friends. I'm hiring them because they're the best for the business. And when we start to look for who does the business need, not who do I want to be.

I have a very strong dominant personality. I need steady eddies with me and compliance people because those are two of my weaknesses. So I go look for those people. That doesn't mean that we're gonna have like the best time and hang out and be best friends. It just means that they're a compliment to me. And that's who I need to hire for the business. So when you look at that, you start to get smarter of like hiring or retaining. Also retaining came into play when I started doing one-on-ones and anonymous surveys within the company. So twice a year I do an anonymous survey. So in April and November,

And I asked them questions of like, you know, what's one thing that you love about the business? What would be one thing you'd recommend we change? How's our leadership style? Like all the reasons people leave, how's your pay? What do you feel about our communication? Do you feel like you're an integral part of the business? Do you feel like your opinions matter? Do you feel like you are able to be supported to do your job to the highest level? Do you feel like we perform the best dentistry? And would you recommend our dentistry to your family and friends? Like questions like that would be reasons people would leave you.

Just because you have a great culture doesn't mean that we're paying at the top level, that we are making sure that our benefits are there. And me as an employer, I had to get really creative because at the beginning I did not have the funds to do it. So we offered a health stipend instead of health insurance. And so at least I had something to offer that way. We started offering, I did more PTO because that was something I could offer that didn't cost me a lot, but I could be competitive with other people that might be paying more. So also like leverage and pay attention.

to what the trends are. The trends now are more time off. So we have in half day Fridays once a month. Reason why is because I know mental health is a big deal. And so if we can be super strong and like hit it hard, we're going to add this in. But I'll also like build it to where you can sustain that long-term. Don't go and offer things trying to negotiate with higher end people when you can't offer that long-term. So I was really, really careful as I grew up.

Kiera Dent (15:57.63)

Okay, I know I can compete with corporate. Like I'm not offering health benefits. I'm not offering the same amount of PTO. I'm not offering the same wages. What could my secret ally be that they have? And it's like, well, you gotta be a part of the growth. And because of that, I'm also going to offer, you can do a bonus at the end of the year based on profitability. So like get creative with the ways that you can attract people. But then I think also make sure that you really have an incredible culture that people want to work there for. And that comes from being kind and being respectful.

You don't have to be like the highest paid people usually like that. You want to be competitive. So I also run numbers every single year to see what are people making. How can I make sure that I am in that highest tier and build my hours and my production to be able to offset that. So like, there's so many pieces to this hiring, but I think hire people that are complimentary to you realize that there is this like speedometer speed up of like you might hire people that don't stay with you for as long. It was, I have turned over so many people and there was a point in time. I felt like a fraud.

And just embarrassed because like in one year I lost 12 people and I just thought that was embarrassing and here I am coaching other people like who am I? And then I thought, heck yeah, who am I? I can now speak to you and I can learn from this and I can figure out the patterns. Also if you're having a lot of turnover, you've got to check and listen in to find out why. And the more you can say why and make the changes, the better off you'll be. Again, most people don't leave jobs. They leave bosses.

So what are you doing? What's your leadership team doing that's making it there? Also, when you're getting there, if you can get a good yin to your yang, so like a good office manager, a good front office lead, someone who's leading the departments where you can't be as dentists and hire that person really well, your practice will flourish. Like the doctor I worked with, she was doing dentistry all the time and I could work the front office and I was really good at closing cases. So between the two of us,

We were able to make a dynamite practice very quickly, but we both had young energy. We were both excited. We both were startup junkies. Like we were so pumped about it where we weren't strong as having like strong. Protocols in place and structure. And our team went through a tumultuous time and I like wish I could go back and coach my younger self that my team needed structure just as much as they needed that energy, but that was me being very young and naive. So learn from that and grow yourself. And then I also hired a coach.

Kiera Dent (18:14.558)

and a coach was able to help me figure out who do I need to hire? They helped me do interviews, they helped me build a process so that way I started interviewing each person consistently. I started doing consistent monthly one-on-ones. I started looking to see how could I pay them? What did I need to do for my profit margins? How could I get competitive without breaking the bank? So I started doing like a hundred dollar health stipend. Well, that's better than nothing. And I could at least say that we have a health stipend in our company. And then I started adding in like maybe one or two more holidays.

Again, making sure my profit margins are there, but a way for me to be competitive. And so we always think that, and then realizing that when teams turn over, they're just making space for the next great person to come in. And when I started looking at that, I'm not failing. Tell me where I can improve. I want to hear that, but I'm just making space for the next person. Like they've outgrown me or I've outgrown them and that's okay. Sometimes we're not perfect fits.

but don't look at this losing of team members. It's a pattern. There's something going on that's causing this. And so if we can figure out the pattern and break the pattern and hire better the next time, beautiful, and don't hire for people to be just like you, but hire for people that are complimentary to you. And I think some of those pieces are what I watch leaders in different practices do, is they're trying to be best friends. And it's like, you need to be a leader in your practice and the friendship will come second. Be respected more than you wanna be liked.

And I think that that's just an evolution. It doesn't mean that we're not friends. It doesn't mean that we have a good time. It doesn't mean that we're fun, but there is a level of being the boss and a leader and being able to drive things as opposed to being best friends who are hanging out on the weekends. And when I realized that, I mean, I make the joke, Kaylee knows this, we're still friends to this day. When I hired Kaylee, I was really looking for a friend and I ended up hiring a personal assistant. It turned out she was awesome. We became really good friends through the process. But now today, I don't hire for that.

I hire for who's the best person for that position where I am in my company that's complimentary to me that will grow it. I don't want to hire a marketer who's been marketing like big corporate. I need someone who's like startup hungry, who wants to grow, who wants to get scrappy, who wants to like figure things out without huge budgets. It's a very different type of marketer than what I'd be hiring if I was at a different point in my career. Just like for you, you might want a very hungry hygienist but maybe you don't want a brand new startup hygienist who's straight out of school when you're straight out of school too.

Kiera Dent (20:33.418)

Maybe you want someone who's been out for three years that can help you build your hygiene department that can help you build the period protocols because they've seen it in real life. I want to have an office manager who's not a brand new office manager and who's never done it before, but let's pay a little bit extra because they know how to do the billing. They know how to close the cases. They know how to run a schedule effectively, but they're not at the end of their career where they're not hungry with you.

You want to have someone who's very complimentary to you. Or if you're like, hey, I just had babies and I just want to have like a smooth schedule, don't hire a hungry office manager that's wanting to put production on the schedule because you're like, no, no. I don't want that. So I also think knowing where you are in your life cycle of business too, is going to help you hire and retain those team members. Sometimes we hire people that aren't a good match, even though they're a great person, but they don't match the life cycle where we are. And that can cause like frustration, it can cause.

incongruent needs and wants being met, and then get those one-on-ones and just get it out in the open. A question I added into my one-on-one was how fulfilled and happy are you in your job on a one to 10? And I check it every single month. And then my team also, we work on the five dysfunctions of teams and building trust. And I tell them like, you've got to be able to tell me and it's open and I want you to know that I want to hear from you. And so sometimes they're at like a six or sometimes they're at a seven. Most of the time they're sitting between eights and nines, which is great.

And I tell them like, what can I do to get you to a nine? Like, what would it take? I want you here for the next five years. Like, what does that going to look like? And I love it. Some of them say like, care, I'm only here for the next couple of years. And that's what I want to do. And I'm, um, some of the people have come to Denali team and they've built their resumes and left. I respect that because I know that they gave me great while they were here. And I'm able to give them great when they leave. And then again, it's just constant refining.

But I think asking about that fulfillment gives me a pulse on my team every month, and it gives them a pulse on themselves as well. And then how can we improve this? What can I do and be invested in them as people as opposed to just employees? And so there's so many pieces on here. I think it's such a fun question for me to answer because there really is no right answer. But mine, like I said, I got really lucky with my first hires. I had great team culture. Then I had really terrible team culture. And then we were able to.

Kiera Dent (22:48.882)

And that was, I think, our growing pains. You know, there's the growing pains of a business. I'm growing, I've never done this before. But give yourself grace. Might be your first biller you hire and it doesn't go well. But I think also having a coach that knows the questions to ask. We help a lot of our offices interview. We help a lot of our offices bring in great hires. We don't do it for them, we help them do it. But I think sometimes figuring that out, when I had my coach help teach me how to hire, how to interview better, how to ask better questions, how to really find out if this is the right person.

and then just realize that no one's a great hire. We all just get better and better and better and hiring and retaining the right people. It's never gonna be a forever team. It's a team for here and now and then you're gonna keep evolving and they're either gonna grow with you or they're going to grow and leave you and both are great options. And the day I realized that my team won't be with me forever and that's nothing wrong with me, it's just a cycle of life, the happier I became because I know that they're with me and my job's to impact them and empower them

be an influence for good on their life while they're with me. And just like they're gonna help grow me while they're with me as well. And then we are gonna part our ways. Who knows, some will be with me for the long haul and others will leave and both are great. But it's about hiring and reducing that turnover. And then I think it's important as your budget can allow getting at least two people for every position. So in case one leaves, hopefully you have a backup and you can bring that person in and then getting those protocols in place as well really will build that kind of security net for you. So.

I love to have two people in my sales team, two people in my marketing team is for you. Two people that could do management. You've got an office manager and who's the second person that can do it when they're gone. You've got at least two people that know the billing. You've got at least two people that could do the schedule if anyone ever left. You've got at least two people that can do great treatment planning. And that doesn't necessarily have to mean I've got two treatment coordinators there. It could be I have a TC and I've got a great dental assistant that if they're ever out, they're an incredible TC in case I ever need them.

So I've got two dental assistants that are incredible that can do all the things. I've got two hygienists that are incredible. So I think also getting a pair can really start to help you. And again, that's as you grow and evolve. Sometimes it's like, oh, and we lost another one. But even if you can have a full time and a part time, getting creative, figuring out how can you retain these people, how can you be competitive with other people? But like I said, people don't leave jobs, they leave bosses. So take a quick look internally when you're having turnover and figure out what am I doing to cause this and what can I do to prevent this moving forward?

Kiera Dent (25:12.878)

is also going to help you exponentially grow. So reach out if we can help you. Hello at thed Know that this takes time. It is a process. It's an evolution. And as always, you're doing better than you think you are. Keep going. The world needs you. Your patients need you. Your team and your future team need you. And we're here to help you in any way we can. Hello at thed And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on The Dental Late Team podcast.