Episode 581: Is Your Practice Elite Status Worthy?

Kiera is featured on the Navigating Dental Insurance Podcast with Jordon Comstock to talk about practices shifting from preferred provider organization (PPO) health insurance to fee-for-service insurance. Together, they touch on:

• Why a practice should move to fee-for-service

• Type of culture fee-for-service patients look for

• How to stand out despite being more expensive

• And more

Episode resources:

Listen to the Navigating Dental Insurance Podcast

Listen to episode 576, Turn Insurance Patients into Membership Patients LEGALLY

Listen to episode 163, Are You Maximizing Your Practice? Membership Plans

Reach out to Kiera

Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast

Become Dental A-Team Platinum!

Review the podcast

Sign up for our Ops Manual Intensive!

Transcript:

0:00:19.0 Kiera Dent: Hey everyone. Welcome to the Dental A Team podcast. I'm your host Kiera Dent. And I had this crazy idea that maybe I could combine a doctor and a team member's perspective, because let's face it dentistry can be a challenging profession with those two perspectives. I've been a dental assistant, treatment coordinator, scheduler, filler, office manager, regional manager, practice owner and I have a team of traveling consultants where we have traveled to over 165 different offices coaching teams. Yep. We don't just understand you. We are you. Our mission is to positively impact the world of dental, and I believe that this podcast is the greatest way I can help elevate teams, grow VIP experiences, reduce stress and create A-teams. Welcome to the Dental A Team podcast.

0:01:04.4 KD: Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and you guys, I am super excited because this is a podcast I recorded with Jordon Comstock, CEO of BoomCloud, and I thought it was actually a really, really awesome podcast about how to make sure that your practice is fee-for-service worthy. So guys, take a listen and as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.

0:01:24.8 Jordon Comstock: What's up everybody and welcome to another exciting episode of 'The Navigating Dental Insurance' podcast. I am your host today, Jordon Comstock. With me, I got a friend. Long-time friend. Haven't spoken with her in a long time. Kiera Dent from the Dental A Team. What is up Kiera.

0:01:40.5 KD: Jordon. Well, I love that you set this up that it's going to be exciting. So you already pre-set the stage. I better come with a lot of excitement, energy...

0:01:47.8 JC: Come with energy [chuckle]

0:01:50.4 KD: No. I'm so good. And it's so good to see you. It has been way too long.

0:01:53.2 JC: Likewise.

0:01:53.9 KD: I'm glad we're podcasting today.

0:01:55.9 JC: Yeah. It's gonna be a fun day [chuckle]

0:01:58.3 KD: It's gonna be exciting? Please, please correct that. Exciting, Fun. What are you trying to do? Add all these expectations?

0:02:02.8 JC: Exciting, fun, energetic. Yeah. Step it up.

0:02:05.6 KD: Here we go. Alright. I'm ready. Here we go.

0:02:08.0 JC: You're ready. Here we go. So today, I'm excited... We chatted a little bit before we started recording, and today we're going to be talking about, 'Is your practice worthy to become fee-for-service?' I think it's a appropriate topic. The amount of practices I speak to on a daily, and just when I'm out at events, so many people are wanting to drop PPOs and become more fee-for-service. So I think this topic is definitely timely, especially 'cause you got we got what inflation pushing on these practices, insurance companies continue doing their BS out there. And I think it does require a certain type of mindset shift to become fee-for-service. And I think it's a fair question to ask yourself. Is my practice worthy to become fee-for-service? So with that said, Kiera, what are some of the mindsets or the culture shifts that you see in a practice that's moving fee-for-service? And maybe why should a practice move fee-for-service? Let's start with those bunch of questions.

0:03:13.5 KD: Yeah. For sure. I think it's... And I'm so jazzed we're talking about this because I agree with you. Seeing hundreds of practices in the Dental A Team... We fly to these practices, and you just hear everyone's ticked off with inflation. They're ticked off with insurance. And my brother-in-law... I'm not allowed to say the company he works for nor his name. And I was like, "We should get on podcast." And he's like, "Kiera, I can't do that." And I was like, "Why not?'Cause you know it sucks?"

0:03:36.0 JC: [chuckle] Is he working for an insurance company?

0:03:38.2 KD: He does work for a dental insurance company. And the thing is... Bottom line is, dental insurance is not these insurance companies' biggest driver. And so they're not trying to increase our maximums. They're not trying to ensure that their fees are congruent with today's current market prices.

0:03:52.9 JC: They just stopped caring...

0:03:55.0 KD: It's like a second thought for them. 'Cause Medical's what drives them, and that's what they're going to make their money on. And so knowing that, I don't blame these dentists for getting ticked off. I don't blame them for being frustrated, but I feel... Be cautious as practices not to get hasty in the moment of, I'm ticked off. I'm sick of these insurance companies. I'm gonna drop them 'cause I wanna get paid more. Which I don't blame you. And I am always...

0:04:15.0 JC: A lot of practices do that. Yeah.

0:04:16.3 KD: And I am all for that. Doctors... My husband went to a pharmacy school. I taught at a dental college. Guys, I am your biggest advocate for you being paid what you're worth. I'm just gonna say sequence matters on this. And let's make sure you have the right practice, the right team, the right verbiage, the right culture because when people become fee-for-service. So when you decide to drop an insurance plan, you have to realize the reason they were coming to you before like initially was because you were in network. Then they built a bond with you, they built a relationship, but the number one thing that probably sent them to you, for most of those patients, was the insurance. You cut that away, now, this person is no longer tethered to you, let's make sure that you actually are providing the practice and the dentistry that this person who's now untethered to you will want to continue to come to you for otherwise, they're just gonna up and go find someone else on their insurance plan.

0:05:02.5 JC: Just down the street. I'm here in Utah, and it seems like every practice is signed up with every PPO under the sun. Right? It gets crazy. So they can just pick up and go down on the street. So, yeah. I think you're absolutely right. So culture... I'm big on culture. Even with my company, that's a very important thing for me 'cause I've seen what bad culture does to an entire company. What are your tips on the type of culture to look for while going fee-for-service.

0:05:30.6 KD: So I think culture is gotta be something where... Let's just think about it. I mean, there is a different mindset if I'm going to Walmart, which Walmart slogan is best... What is it? Cheapest savings or something like that. Like they are literally targeting...

0:05:44.3 JC: Something like that. Yeah.

0:05:45.7 KD: Clearly we don't know. But you just think about what is the marketing message for Walmart? Who's coming like, they are looking for people who are looking for deals. That is their target audience. They want the people who want the discounts. Then you migrate to Nordstrom or to Gucci or to Prada. Guys guess what? Louis Vuitton does not run specials. They would... You would never see a Louis Vuitton of 50% off. You would vomit if you saw that come through as marketing because their clientele would never want something 50% off. That's not what they're looking for.

0:06:15.5 JC: Interesting.

0:06:19.2 KD: So I think fee-for-service is more Louis Vuitton guys and PPO is more Walmart. And so your team... I'm not saying PPO is Walmart guys. I'm not trying to be a jerk here. I'm just saying, I'm going to Walmart 'cause I'm getting discounts. 'Cause Jason, my husband, he hates shopping anywhere else. He's like, "Let's go to Walmart and save money." And I'm like, "Let's buy organic." I know they don't. Whatever. Right?

0:06:35.9 JC: Sure. Yeah.

0:06:36.9 KD: But Jason's like, "Save me money. Let's do this." And that's where he's going to go. But I just think like think about your practice. So when I was PPO... Well, guys, a lot of our verbiage was around insurance. I'm looking at maxes. I'm doing insurance verification. I'm really ensuring I know their information. When I go fee-for-service guys, what do they care about? They care about the experience. They care about how they're treated. They care that their bill is correct. You don't have insurance to fall back on anymore, guys. You don't have this caveat to fall into. So I feel like culture-wise is we are more focused on patient experience. Not saying in PPO that you're not. I'm just saying you gotta heighten this sucker up.

0:07:13.0 JC: You gotta level up.

0:07:15.7 KD: Because at that point, these patients become free agents. They are radical. They can go anywhere. You've gotta find something that's going to keep them tethered to you and what I will say... The things that deter patients. Number one, scheduling. If it's a nightmare, if it's hard if it's hard for them to get scheduled, they're going to go somewhere else that's going to be easier. So online scheduling...

0:07:33.1 JC: Yeah. Such as convenience.

0:07:36.4 KD: Totally. You've got to be up in the know right now otherwise you're going to be left behind. So it's really gotta be something where you... You've got top notch online scheduling. And if you don't wanna do it, consider elsewhere. Unless you're trying to attract an elderly patient base, that's fine. They're not going to be online scheduling. They're gonna be postcards and calling you and all of that, but have a nice concierge for it.

0:07:55.9 KD: Then another thing that I'm noticing is... How is the experience overall? How's the dentistry guys... They're gonna leave if you're giving hard injections, if your bites are off, because there's 100 different dentists that they could go to while they still have insurance. So make sure that there's painless dentistry. And then the other top notch things that I'm seeing are how are they treated when they come in. If your front desk person is on the phone when they're coming in and all the forms are funky and the bills are wrong, that is gonna deter people more than anything. And I have a... A personal example is, we have never been with dental insurance, me and my husband, ever until this year.

0:08:30.4 JC: Nice.

0:08:31.6 KD: And the rep said, "Hey, guess what? Your dentist is in-network." And so my husband's like, "Do we do it?" And I was like, "Oh. MetLife. Dang." But if our dentist is in-network, whatever. We'll try it. We've been membership plan fanatics over here. Sure enough, we go to the dentist...

0:08:45.5 JC: I'm on a membership plan.

0:08:49.5 KD: But really. So the story goes, we go to the dentist, my husband gets a bill because don't worry. MetLife is claiming that our dentist is in-network because five years ago there were two dentists who used to work there that no longer worked there, that were in-network. So therefore, the rep said that they were in-network. It's total BS. I was livid. I call them and I'm like, "What the heck? I'm not paying 250 bucks for an in-network plan. Like Profee. This is ridiculous. Switch me to a membership plan." So I had them send back the money to MetLife. I switched over to a membership plan. But guys, that bill and that billing and all that junk... We have been fee-for-service patients at this dentist for the last four years.

0:09:24.3 JC: Nice.

0:09:25.9 KD: That chapped my husband so much, he left. So my husband... We now go to two separate dentists because my husband got so bugged with it. So the point of this is, Jason, my husband is on insurance. His insurance is junk, guys. And it did not do well. But because the billing was wrong, because the scheduling was hard.

0:09:42.8 JC: Oh interesting.

0:09:45.9 KD: Because the team at the fee-for-service practice didn't uphold their end of the bargain, it frustrated my husband so much. For me, I'm terrified about going to different dentists. So I'm gonna stick with their membership plan. But to the lay person who doesn't care about that as much, the bill is what ticked my husband off to where he went to somebody else who's in-network, even if they're not as great of a dentist. But because my husband has insurance, he went there. So I'd say it's the scheduling, the convenience, how you're treating them, and then your type of dentistry are gonna be three of the big things to look for in that culture and the experience that patients will be looking for when they become fee-for-service.

0:10:18.0 JC: Wonderful thought. Yeah. That's awesome. See. No. I'm the type of patient Kiera that actually signs up for a dental membership plan, but then I don't go. [laughter]

0:10:25.0 KD: So you're that guy? Perfect. Okay guys. He's a statistic.

0:10:29.6 JC: I pay for the membership plan 'cause we obviously use one of our clients at BoomCloud just down the street here. And all of our employees get... Have a membership plan. But I bought it maybe a year ago and I still haven't gone. I'm like, "Oh man. I'm that patient that pays them money." And... [laughter] I clean my own teeth.

0:10:46.3 KD: It's okay. Dentistry, I mean... I was talking to someone like, "What do you do?" And I was like, "I work with dentists." I'm like, "The number one hated profession in America." I get it. Dentists are hated, dentistry is hated. So I don't blame you. And I think more people are like you. And so it's really also giving patients peace of mind. Let's think of what are those patients concerned. I'm gonna ask Jordon, "Why don't you go to the dentist?" That got really personal.

0:11:09.3 JC: Why don't I?

0:11:10.5 KD: Yeah. Why have you been? You pay for it.

0:11:12.3 JC: No. No. You can ask me, I'm very... Yeah. I pay for it. Absolutely. I think, for me, I'm super busy. And I got... So I am busy at BoomCloud. Run BoomCloud with my team and we travel a lot. And then I get home and I've got three little girls that keep me even busier. Right? So for me it's just lack of convenience. If they had a mobile dentistry shop and they came to my house, I would do that. Yeah.

0:11:39.5 KD: I would also say...

0:11:39.8 JC: For me it's just... In fact that's what I do with all of my cars. I pay a membership for all my maintenance for my cars and they're mobile. They come to my house. So I think it's just... My lifestyle right now, I'm just going and going and going on. I'm too busy.

0:11:55.8 KD: So, two things on it. One, your dental office probably hasn't made it easy for you. They should have scheduled you and just said like, "You're coming on on this day." 'Cause then that takes the stress out of it, like, "Okay. I'm coming." That probably would have gotten you in. That's number one. The second thing is, if anybody listening wants to create a billionaire side hustle, guys become the dental office. Right? Okay. Jordon. This is gonna be our billionaire side hustle, is high-end entrepreneurs are busy. And they will literally pay for you to come fly to... Come to their house, do their dentistry for them in a mobile van, and then you go to the next one. Get some bougie Mercedes van. Have it cruise around. I truly do believe that you could be...

0:12:36.3 JC: I would totally do that.

0:12:36.8 KD: I would too.

0:12:41.3 JC: If they came to me or my office, and I would totally do that over the traditional way.

0:12:44.8 KD: There you go. It's a billionaire side hustle.

0:12:46.3 JC: Just because I'm busy... Try a billionaire. There's actually a practice here called Jet Dental that's actually just down the street from our office. And they're a mobile dentistry shop. That they go into corporate... I'll have to have our HR team look at maybe bringing them in.

0:13:00.4 KD: See.

0:13:01.5 JC: 'Cause that's when I would do dentistry. Because I'm always traveling and then I get home and I'm juggling three girls.

0:13:06.3 KD: Yep. Totally get it.

0:13:06.8 JC: And a puppy now. We got a new puppy. So it's insane over here.

0:13:09.3 KD: Oh my gosh, Jordon. Well, I'm also gonna ask. Does your dental practice text you, so you could just schedule on your phone?

0:13:16.8 JC: No. So I was gonna actually make a comment on that when you said the convenience of scheduling, because I am going out of network, right? I think what, a year ago I had to go to the dermatologist to go get something looked at. And, the, I was in-network with an office, but I would call them and they would never answer or they missed phone calls or I was just phone tagged, back and forth. It was driving me crazy. And then I found, an office just up the street here, they're out of network for... On my plan. But on their website, they made it easy for me to schedule. I ended up choosing them because like I said, I'm busy and I'm like, "Man, I don't have time to be playing phone tag with an office to try to get... Try to give them money." Right?

0:14:01.3 KD: Exactly.

0:14:02.8 JC: So I went to the... I... For me everything's convenience. That's what I like with my own personal, like customer experiences, at stores and whatever. Right? I like convenience because my life is just complicated with young girls and a growing company. So, but they... I got on their website and easily booked and I got in, I think that same day or later that day, something like that, maybe it was the next day. But they made it really easy for me to get in really quick and get out. Right. And I think that's what... You're absolutely right. In dentistry, making it easy to book an appointment is most of... Like, I care about my teeth. I've been on the clinical side of the dentistry, but my issue is not that I don't care about my teeth. My issue is that I... And I need more convenience for me to even go, right?

0:14:54.5 KD: Totally.

0:14:54.9 JC: It's just too complicated.

0:14:56.6 KD: But I think like Jordon, the reason I asked that is because I wanted to hear... Guys, Jordon is a real patient and yet...

0:15:04.2 JC: I'm a real patient. Yeah.

0:15:05.8 KD: He cares about his teeth.

0:15:07.3 JC: I do.

0:15:08.3 KD: But because it's not convenient. So I'm like, Okay, if you're gonna be a fee-for-service practice, Jordon will literally... Like he said, he went somewhere else and paid more money to someone else because it was more convenient for him to get in.

0:15:17.0 JC: Yeah, totally.

0:15:17.7 KD: That is the type of stuff you have to think of when you wanna go out of network is what are these people going to keep coming to me for? I'm going to be more expensive than a competitor with insurance, but do I text them, "Hey, you're overdue for your cleaning click here and get scheduled. I can't wait to see you."

0:15:35.1 KD: Are you guys sick of trying to figure it out on your own? I know I am. When I'm trying to run a business, sometimes I just think like there's got to be a better way to do this. And so for me, my answer has been to find someone who's done it and does it really, really, really well. Like I'm talking the best of the best of the best. I want someone who's been in my shoes, somebody who understands what I'm going through. When I was looking for the consulting business, I found a coach who literally has run a consulting business. Well, that seems like the perfect fit. So you guys, right now, we have a few spaces open in our platinum consulting that is in the consulting where we actually come to your practice. We help you get systems implemented. We don't just tell you what systems to implement. We actually implement them with you and for you. You guys, it is one of the best investments I have ever made is to hire a coach who understands the business I'm in, who's lived it, who's done it.

0:16:28.3 KD: And that's what we in the Dental A Team do. We literally physically fly to you. So if you're sick of trying to figure it out on your own, if you just want somebody who understands you, join our platinum, I'd love to have you. I'd love to have our consulting team come out and see you, be in your office, be with your team and truly help you get onto the easy path of dentistry. It doesn't have to be hard. So join us in the platinum. We'd love to have you.

0:16:54.3 KD: Honest to goodness guys, I would bet, I would put a solid, I'm gonna put a hundred bucks. I know Jordon pretty well. I would bet if I texted him and said, "Hey Jordon, we haven't seen you in a little while. Here's a link get scheduled. I can't wait to see you." And then I followed up in two days and two more days and just said, "Hey, I would... "

0:17:08.0 JC: I would most likely take action.

0:17:09.0 KD: He would do it because guess what? He's gonna be looking at his text messages in the middle of the night while he's like, "Oh shoot. I forgot to do that." Click on it, schedule at night and be like, "Oh, I actually could do it tomorrow at four o'clock there's a spot I'm going to schedule." That is the...

0:17:20.7 JC: Yeah, I would totally do something like that. If they made it easy for me, that's really the issue for me. It's not easy.

0:17:27.4 KD: Yep. But like that's the whole point. This is why it's such a brilliant one because today like, Jordon, do you use Instacart or some food delivery, the...

0:17:35.7 JC: Oh yeah. Instacart.

0:17:35.8 KD: 100%.

0:17:36.6 JC: Everything we do, we use, DoorDash and Instacart on a daily basis.

0:17:41.8 KD: Same. I was literally...

0:17:42.6 JC: Because...

0:17:42.9 KD: Go ahead.

0:17:46.0 JC: It's because I'm so convenience... I would tell my wife I'm so convenience oriented. Like I want it to be convenient. I'm like, I don't want to get home from the office and then go to the grocery store. Right? I'd rather just order everything on the app. And then it's there on my porch. Right? Ready to be taken in. Right? So I save a lot of time doing that, the same thing with, well, just lots of the little services like that. We have... People come in and like clean our house, straighten up our house. DoorDash and Instacart definitely are I think if I were to look at my bank statement, I'm like, "Man, I spend a lot of money with those."

0:18:19.6 KD: And Amazon, right?

0:18:22.4 JC: Yeah. And Amazon, yeah.

0:18:23.2 KD: Instacart, DoorDash and Amazon. But you look at that and that's what I'm trying to point at...

0:18:24.6 JC: All convenience.

0:18:26.0 KD: All convenience. They looked at it. You guys, grocery shopping is a freaking pain, to go to the store and do it, and when you're looking to see what are these people going to... It doesn't matter if you're trying to attract entrepreneurs or you're trying to attract the...

0:18:37.8 JC: Totally.

0:18:38.9 KD: But I'm like, but guess what? People work, 8:00 to 5:00. They have jobs. So if you are making it hard for people to schedule, to pay their bills, to get in to see you... My husband, guess what? Remember, let's go back and loop. He went to the office that was in network. Guess what? Guess who sat there for an hour and a half for a new patient exam? Didn't get his teeth cleaned. Had to get... Leave, because he's like, "Guys, I've gotta get back to work." Sat there for an hour and a half and then had to go back the next week for it. And I was like, there's no way I would ever go back to that practice.

0:19:05.9 JC: It's not convenient.

0:19:06.0 KD: Even if they're saving me money, because at that point in time, I've lost two days of work, for a cleaning that should have just taken one day. So those are the types of things. So fee-for-service, if you're gonna have these membership plans, which, that's ultimately why I love membership plans and love being on the podcast is because you no longer have insurance that's tethering these patients, you figured out a great patient experience, throw that membership plan in place. So now these patients are tethered to you. They do wanna keep coming back to you and it's convenient. But I will say, guys, if you're gonna be fee-for-service, go out of network, don't have two appointments for cleanings, people don't wanna come back. I don't care if you're busy and slammed, you're trying to drop these patients. But guess what? As a fee-for-service paying patient where I'm paying top dollar, I expect top dollar results. I wanna come in. I wanna be seen by the same hygienist.

0:19:49.7 JC: Totally.

0:19:50.8 KD: Same dentist. I wanna have consistent care. I wanna be able to have ease for scheduling my fillings, because if not, I'm going to go to the person who takes insurance because it's easier and it's cheaper. Make your life super simple and fee-for-service.

0:20:03.8 JC: That's really interesting. 'Cause I've obviously seen a lot of different practices here in Utah, knowing... I know a lot of the practice here 'cause I used to manage a dental lab. So I know a lot of the dentists in town. And I've noticed that most of them that I've gone to have made it really complicated for me, now they're all... Most of them are all in network, except for one that I'm aware of. But it seems like all of them have made it really complicated for me to schedule an appointment and even want to go. Right? Or even, reminding me, 'cause we all forget, right? We get busy. Like you said, with the text message reminders. I think that is super critical. And if a practice isn't doing that and thinking that they should go fee-for-service... I'm gonna have my mom listen to this episode 'cause she's taking her office that she works for, they're becoming to be... I was... I dropped by yesterday to visit her and she's like, "Yeah, we're dropping four more plans." I'm like, "Yeah. Yeah." After this podcast, after listening to you Kiera I'm gonna send this to her and be like, "Follow, what Kiera says, because you don't text me. You don't... "

0:21:04.7 KD: Totally.

0:21:04.8 JC: They're a pediatric office. So, but my daughters go there. Right. So I'm like, "You don't text me to schedule and you make it really hard. So like it's time to level up, mother."

0:21:12.0 KD: Well, I think, in general dentistry, it's interesting. I just hired a marketer, he's joining our team. I'm super jazzed for him to start. And I asked him, 'cause he's coming from SaaS and tech, and I was like...

0:21:23.9 JC: Oh, cool.

0:21:24.6 KD: "Why are you coming to dental?" Like the... I feel like a complete like left turn, like what happened? You're headed on one direction? And he said, "Kiera, I was at the dental office actually. I've got family member who are dentists." And he said, "I noticed like this software looks like it's from a long time ago." He said, "Dentistry feels very outdated in a lot of ways. And I feel like dentistry is a good space to be able to come in, level up, and help people like, basically, just revitalize." And I feel like that's somebody, again, guys, who's not in the dental world. This guy is literally coming from tech. He's like website dev, all of that, coming into dental because he sees it as his own to come into. So I feel like our practices...

0:22:03.3 JC: There's a a lot of opportunity. Yeah.

0:22:05.9 KD: For sure. And I just feel like offices be a forerunner on this. If you wanna go fee-for-service, I am rooting for you. I'm rooting for you to go on the membership plan. That's why I'm on the podcast. 'Cause I'm a firm believer, like I will... I will promote membership plans every single day of my life. Like I clearly even went in network and just...

0:22:22.9 JC: Me too.

0:22:23.0 KD: Went out of it, like clearly, Jordon. But the reality is you have to realize that people will pay different fees for fee-for-service, your clientele, your patient base is going to be very different PPO versus fee-for-service. So figure out that avatar, figure out what they want and listen to those pain points. I don't know about you, Jordon. I read up on like real cool companies like Amazon, Apple, like I just wanna know what the founders think and...

0:22:46.8 JC: Totally.

0:22:48.3 KD: Jeff Bezos said something super interesting with Amazon. He, like, when they were trying to launch Amazon, he noticed it was too clicky. Like there were too many buttons for them to be able to purchase things. And you had to walk 'em through too many times that he was like, "Go back," and the developers hated him. He was like, "Go back, and make it to where it's a one button click." And if you notice you can...

0:23:07.1 JC: I love that feature.

0:23:08.8 KD: Buy, like go to an option... 'Cause I was so bugged where we just bought a house and I have a ton of junk for like was washing out the faucets and all these things, 'cause I didn't wanna pay the upgraded fees and my husband's a custom home designer.

0:23:17.9 JC: Nice.

0:23:19.5 KD: And builder. So I was like, that's fine. We'll just order it all. I've got a basketful of faucets, sinks, towels, all this, and I just need to buy this book, and there's the Buy Now button. So instead of me having to go through my whole cart of 50 items, there's a Buy Now button. They listen to what customers want. They think outside the box.

0:23:36.9 JC: Yeah. That's cool.

0:23:38.0 KD: And they've made it simple. And so I feel like that's really how you can determine is your practice fee for...

0:23:41.6 JC: And convenient, just one click and a lot of the times, now, Kiera, that are coming in, like I ordered stuff two days ago and like literally the next morning it was on my porch. I was like, "Whoa," convenient and then they, wow you, right? They're doing it right.

0:23:55.0 KD: And that's what it is. That's what it is. So if you are wanting to go fee-for-service, I'm all pro, if you're sick of paying for the insurance and getting the reimbursements and just feeling like it's junk and there's so much time, fantastic. I am a 100% pro memberships. I will literally sing it from the rooftops, but I'm going to caution you before you do it. Make sure your practice is fee-for-service worthy. Make sure your patient experience, your culture, the convenience, you're looking you're... You're seeing it because guess what guys, as soon as you cut that umbilical cord of insurance patients become free radicals. And if they don't love you, if they're not tethered to you and there's not a reason that they should keep coming to you, they will... Like, you'll keep some, but there's a lot that you're going to lose over time.

0:24:33.2 JC: Sure.

0:24:34.4 KD: Just because they're gonna go somewhere else. 'Cause they'll think that that insurance is gonna give them the best experience.

0:24:39.8 JC: Yeah. What I would imagine as you're going out, becoming more fee-for-service that you wanna prioritize some marketing strategies out there. I would imagine to...

0:24:48.7 KD: Absolutely.

0:24:49.0 JC: Continue bringing patients in and, and keeping that pipeline full 'cause no matter what type of business you're in, whether it's a dental office, a software company, a dental lab, a consulting firm, you're gonna have some type of attrition, right? Whether you're in network or out of network, there's always some type of attrition. So I think marketing helps kind of solve that, but more so, when you become fee-for-service, right? You wanna... I would imagine you wanna prioritize a marketing funnel. [laughter]

0:25:15.6 KD: If you don't, you just cut the lifeblood, because you have to realize insurance is a marketing funnel. Yes. You don't like paying that 30, 40% off, but guess what? That 30, 40% off that you're paying of... Of your contracted rate, that is your marketing budget. Whether you choose to see it that way or not.

0:25:31.2 JC: Totally.

0:25:32.1 KD: So, absolutely. You're now getting paid full fee, but that doesn't mean you gotta keep full fee. You've gotta now have money to go in and market new patients that wanna come to you for that experience and the things that differentiate.

0:25:42.1 JC: And, the cool thing about that is back to control. And maybe I'm a control freak, but I like controlling my costs and my efficiencies. Right? So when you bring marketing back in-house versus like labeling the insurance company as a marketing component, you bring it marketing in house, right? You're able to control it more and optimize it and make it more efficient, whereas, I would say let's call it PPO marketing is not that efficient and it's not very direct... Like directly, focused on your practice, it's kind of a network of practices. Right?

0:26:14.4 KD: Totally.

0:26:15.2 JC: So I think that's why... That's why I would like... I would prefer, becoming a fee-for-service practice because, number one, you have revenue control, and then... Or pricing control. However, you like to look at it, and then marketing management or marketing control. So you can control all those necessary components of your business and optimize them to make them better. Specifically for your practice. So that's kind of how I look at it.

0:26:39.5 KD: Totally. Well, and I think it's just a matter of, do you wanna go out and hustle and find some marketing companies that can help you and you get on social media? Or do you wanna pay the cost of just having insurance companies come? And either way, you're going to pay a cost. It just depends on what side do you wanna go. I am all about being paid for what I'm worth and being able to attract the patients that I wanna have. And so, of course... And I also just feel like I hate insurance being capped and having waiting periods, deductibles, missing tooth clauses...

0:27:06.7 JC: There's a lot of red tape.

0:27:07.5 KD: Oh my gosh.

0:27:09.2 JC: They throw a lot of red tape. And you're dealing with small businesses that aren't accustomed to bureaucratic red tape. That is like...

0:27:15.6 KD: I'm like, "Let them get their crown." We're not trying... I'm not trying to do a build-up insurance company 'cause I want more money from you. Literally, this is what needs to happen. And so for me, I just think that the annoyance of insurance is worthwhile. Because changing my culture, having a better patient experience, to me, is a piece that I would prefer to do 'cause I know it's just gonna ultimately be better for my patients, better for my team...

0:27:37.1 JC: Yeah. It's like an upgrade. Yeah.

0:27:41.3 KD: So let's do that instead.

0:27:42.3 JC: Sweet. No. I love it. I think this is awesome and much needed in our industry today with all the inflation in the... Like I said at the beginning the BS from the insurance companies seems to... It seems to be getting worse over time. At least as long as I have been in this role in dentistry, it seems like it's just getting more complicated. [chuckle] You know.

0:28:01.5 KD: And it will continue. They're not gonna make it easy 'cause guess what? The insurance companies don't wanna pay out money. So they're in a business as well.

0:28:07.3 JC: They don't. Well, that's their business model. Right? It's to collect as much money as they can and pay out as little as possible. [chuckle] That's literally their business model.

0:28:15.8 KD: Why do you wanna be tethered and in bed with that person when their business model is not to serve you? It just feels very silly to me.

0:28:23.1 JC: Well, yeah. If you think about it, and I say this all the time, insurance companies attack three things. Right? They attack the practice's cash flow, they attack the practice's profit margins, and then they attack the patient experience in a practice. Right? Because often, if a patient has some type of issue with an insurance, the patient thinks it's the practice's fault or something. Right? So it really messes with those three things, and if I had a business partner or employee do that, Kiera, I would fire them. Right? I'd get rid of them. [chuckle] That's what I... That's how I look at it. Because I... It just doesn't make sense to me that our industry has allowed this to go on for so long, because of those three things that insurance company hurts or tax. Right? So that's kind of always been my mindset and really any industry that deals with insurance is dealing with these same problems. Right? That it kind of makes me scratch my head like, "Why do you keep partnering with bad partners?" [chuckle] It just doesn't make sense.

0:29:22.2 KD: I think it's 'cause people don't... They don't wanna have the "pain" of creating an awesome culture, that's a great patient experience. Which, even if you're PPO you should do...

0:29:31.0 JC: Yeah. 'Cause that does take a lot of work to create a good culture.

0:29:33.5 KD: But at the same time, shouldn't you be doing it anyway?

0:29:36.2 JC: It's so important. You should be doing it anyway. Yeah.

0:29:39.9 KD: And secondly, if you're a great company, you think about all the companies that you just love. Like I think of restaurants. Of stores. Of products that I just naturally recommend because I love them so much that if I'm that kind of... If it's that kind of experience, then your patients are naturally going to refer. And yes, you do need to do marketing. But to me, I just feel like it is, "Why not?" And why not give your patients a better experience because then you get to play the game, you get to do whatever you wanna do, you get to write the rules, and there's just tha... I just feel it gives you more freedom and control and creativity, but if that's not your jam and jive, rock on. Stay in the insurance world.

0:30:11.3 KD: But I would strongly recommend at least trying it. And if nothing else, even if you wanna stay in the insurance world, which again, I'd say get membership plans regardless. Because people are going to stop coming to you very soon with recessions. So have that fall proof in place for you. But I just feel like enhance that culture right now. Even if you're not choosing to be fee-for-service because getting consistent referral base of patients, no matter if your PPO or fee-for-service is going to maintain that flow and give you confidence to be able to sleep at night, to be happier and to be more successful.

0:30:43.9 JC: Yeah. I like sleeping well at night.

0:30:45.8 KD: Me too. Instacart and sleep. That's all I need.

0:30:49.5 JC: Instacart and sleep. Perfect. [chuckle] Oh, I love this. This has been an awesome episode, and great tips from you 'cause I mean, you see... You're boots on the ground in a lot of offices, I would imagine. So you gotta see probably a lot more than what I see, 'cause I just go visit a couple of my friends that are in office and then my mom down the street. [laughter]

0:31:09.9 KD: Hey mom. [laughter] I'm here.

0:31:11.1 JC: Yeah. Yeah. Mom, I hope you listen to this episode. This is dedicated to you.

0:31:15.1 KD: That's right, mama. And the fact that I can have a podcast, and he's gonna make his mom listen to, I feel pretty great about that. So...

0:31:20.9 JC: Yeah. Yeah. It's good. It's good. [chuckle] So Kiera, if someone's looking... They love this episode, they love your tips. What do you have to offer to help practices to become fee-for-service, and how can a practice contact you and learn more about what you offer?

0:31:34.9 KD: Yeah. So I love dentistry. My last name really is Dent, and I'm obsessed with it. I'm just obsessed with helping offices have happier lives, and as a result, they become more successful as well. So help more patients, help their teams and just be... Have life easier. So if that resonates with you, I think the best zone is our podcast. So we have a podcast called The Dental A Team. Tons and tons of tips just like this. And then if you're interested, you want one-on-one customize in your practice. If you're like me where I can hear tips day long, I just need someone to hold my hand and make sure I actually implement all these great ideas, that's what we do. We do private one-on-one coaching either in person, in practices, or virtually. So you can email us if that's something that jives with you at [email protected]. One day I'll just get Dental A Team, but as of today, we're cool, like the Facebook, the Home Depot, whatever. It's fine. So [email protected] or just head on over to our podcast, The Dental A Team podcast and tons of tips just like this. But super appreciate it, Jordon, it's been real fun and I just appreciate everything you guys are doing for the world of dentistry.

0:32:38.1 JC: Well, likewise. Thanks so much for coming on our show and rock on everybody.

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0:32:46.3 KD: And that wraps it up for another episode of The Dental A Team podcast. Thank you so much for listening and we'll talk to you next time.

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