Episode 792: How to Extend the Perfect Job Offer

 Tiff and Denae are back with another episode on hiring people the right way. This episode is about the last hurdle: the offer. The two run through the following:

• How to know if you’re paying the candidate the right amount

• What to do if that perfect unicorn is asking for way more than you've offered

• How quickly you should give them PTO

• When it’s finally (finally) time to make that offer and how to do it

• And more!

Episode resources:

Reach out to Tiff and Denae: [email protected] 

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Transcript:

Tiffanie (00:01.919)

Hello, Denali team listeners, I am coming at you today with one of my favorite podcasters. I really I say this all the time, but I really love the way your brain works today. And I hope you never get tired of hearing that because I will continue to say it. And I strategically like I always say I strategically pick these things for you. Just like I love picking the ones that I do with Dana or with Dana. You guys just think so much the same.

 

Denae Black (00:17.687)

Love it.

 

Tiffanie (00:28.959)

but so differently at the same time. So it's really fun for me to like go through and pick these things. So thank you for being here with me today. We just wrapped up a really fun one on interviewing and I hope that everybody went and listened to that. And Danae, number one, how are you today? How are you doing? Before we even get started, like how's Danae's world? Is it snowing? I thought of that today. Oh, I'm thinking of you today when I was getting dressed because I knew we were podcasting and I knew I have this beautiful window right here. And I thought,

 

Denae Black (00:46.766)

Thanks for watching!

 

Tiffanie (00:58.295)

Wouldn't it be really cool if there was like snow falling outside my window? But you know, I think it's like 70 degrees out there because Arizona, but how is it in your world?

 

Denae Black (01:01.919)

Yes.

 

Denae Black (01:07.594)

Yeah. It's good. It's definitely snowy. So this weekend we went up north. We got probably a good two inches of snow, so not a ton, but it was enough to make the drive back down south Michigan, a little bit icy. It's still snowing a little bit today. I was just joking with my kids because Saturday the sky was still blue. And I said, you guys see that blue sky? And they were like, yep. I said, you better say goodbye for the next six months.

 

Tiffanie (01:11.715)

Well...

 

Tiffanie (01:16.905)

Yeah.

 

Tiffanie (01:29.228)

Go.

 

Denae Black (01:35.698)

Michigan gray, I swear Michigan gray should be like a pink color for walls, because it's a real thing. Don't get me wrong, I love living here, but it's definitely winter. Winter has come to Michigan for sure.

 

Tiffanie (01:38.317)

Yeah.

 

Tiffanie (01:46.695)

Yeah. Okay, well then I will not complain about my blue skies I see outside the window and I'll FaceTime you every now and again and give you a little glimpse. I love it.

 

Denae Black (01:52.814)

I'm gonna go.

 

Denae Black (01:57.146)

Yes. That's how you know that you are originally from Arizona because you, I never realized that, I mean, of course I knew that the sky was blue, but you never pay attention to the sky being blue in Arizona because it's always blue. The first time I ever went outside in Michigan and looked up and saw like noticed or realized the sky was blue. I knew, I knew that. Yep. I've been here. I'm officially a Michigander.

 

Tiffanie (02:23.807)

You knew. Yeah. Life had changed forever in that point. It's funny because in Arizona, like when we see a gray sky, we're like, open the doors, open the windows, go outside, enjoy the like no sun, the gray clouds, because realistically, like, I think the past two weekends in a row, we woke up on Saturday and I was like, Oh my gosh, it's like a rainy day. But by 11am, it was totally gone. No rain, of course. And I was like, Oh,

 

like 85. We woke up and it was 53 and then by noon it was 85. So I totally get that. I love it. Well you come home whenever you want. You have places, you know your family's here, but you have places to stay. You have dental 18 family welcoming you home anytime you need a little reprieve from that gray because we've got those blue skies for you. So today I wanted to spin off of our

 

Denae Black (03:00.13)

Yeah.

 

Denae Black (03:14.559)

Absolutely.

 

Tiffanie (03:21.887)

I'm hoping all of our listeners listen to that. They've hammered out some awesome interviews and they're like, okay, Tiff and Danae, I've done this. Now I'm ready to hire. What do I do? So today I wanted to chat about extending an offer to the perfect candidate. So number one, you've already gone through the interviews. You put out the awesome ad. You attracted the amazing candidates. You called them right away. You did the interviews and you've got candidates that you're like, okay, these are the ones we're narrowing it down or I've got the one. How do I extend an offer?

 

I think this is an important piece and I know on our last one when we talked about the interviewing, something you said was you hated interviewing originally because you didn't know how to do it. Right? And like that groundwork wasn't laid out. And I totally, totally empathize with that because I was the same way. And I almost think this piece was harder than the interviewing when I was when I was in practice doing it or coaching my doctors through it. I can see that like

 

Denae Black (04:02.094)

Mm-hmm.

 

Tiffanie (04:19.867)

they are having a harder time extending the offer and knowing what that needs to look like. And I think there's a few pieces there. One, when you're interviewing, there's not a lot of fear of rejection because they're coming to you.

 

But now we've got to extend this offer and hope that they like what we're putting out there. And it's kind of like dating, in my opinion, especially now dating's all online, right? So it's like exactly the same. You're interviewing online, you're getting these resumes, you're getting these likes, these clicks, and then all of a sudden you're like, do you want to go on a date? Right? Do you want to date me for longer? And that's kind of what the interviewing process is like. The team interview is like, do you want to come on a date with all of us and get to know us? And then extending the offer is like, cool.

 

We had a couple of dates. Do you like me enough to keep dating me? So it gets a little scary, right? And you're putting yourself out there. You're putting your practice out there and you're banking on this person, um, to really come on board and help solidify your team. So I think the biggest piece is one, there's the fear of rejection. You just got to get over, but then you've got the hurdle of ensuring that you're paying them the right amount.

 

Right? Our initial phone interview, we talked about what their expectations were. Hopefully you got over that hurdle of like, well, this is kind of the range that I'm looking to pay. Does that fit for you? So hopefully you've got that solidified. But, Denae, what have you coached your doctors on or done in the past yourself as far as knowing what to pay? Um, and if they're asking, if you're perfect campaign, then air quotes, cause you guys, I have a lot of thoughts around that. If your perfect candidate is asking for way more.

 

then you're prepared to offer? What do you suggest, Dine?

 

Denae Black (06:02.222)

Well, I think that you need to dig into where is that dollar amount coming from? So if they are, if you have additional benefits that maybe they didn't have, right? If you have 401k, if you have additional paid days off, if you offer medical benefits, all of these other factors that maybe they didn't get before, you also want to highlight the additional benefits that they are getting by coming onto your team.

 

So there's a few different factors there. You want to be 100% in the know about the additional benefits that this candidate is going to be getting. Ideally, like Tiff, what you said, ideally you guys have already hashed out and you know exactly what they're looking for. They know exactly what you're looking to offer from that very first phone interview. It does happen where at times now you go to extend an offer and maybe the communication wasn't.

 

ideal, right? Maybe there was some sort of miscommunication between what they were asking for and what you're offering, or maybe they got an offer from somebody else already in the midst of the last week, week and a half, right? And so to know exactly what your top range is of how high you're going to go in this position and also know all of the ins and the outs of the additional benefits that you are providing them.

 

Tiffanie (07:10.036)

Yeah.

 

Denae Black (07:27.322)

is gonna help you whenever it comes to negotiating what their actual compensation is gonna be.

 

Tiffanie (07:32.527)

I think that's brilliant. I think what you said, like I keyed in on know your top range and know your benefits, your additional benefits. I think a lot of practices, a lot of practices come to us because they need systems, they need operations manual, and then they're like, wait, what about a handbook? I think a lot of practices, a lot of doctors, and a lot of office managers have no idea what their benefits actually are, or what they can consider a benefit you guys PTO sick time, holidays.

 

Denae Black (07:37.407)

Uh-huh.

 

Tiffanie (08:02.019)

time off when the doctor's off, like, all of those things are benefits, bonus structures, bonus systems, I know a lot of practices that have end of year bonuses that they never talk about. And then their teams just like, Oh, I didn't realize we get this. And like, those are hiring bonuses, you guys, those are hiring pluses. So know your top range. I love that. Always start low, right? We want to we don't want to start at our top range. Because if they say no to that, then you're out.

 

Denae Black (08:04.942)

and I'll see you next time.

 

Tiffanie (08:32.047)

So always start within low to mid of whatever your pay range is. So if you're hiring an assistant and you're like, I'm willing to go up to $23 an hour, but I'd really for someone who's fantastic, but I'd really like to stay in the 17, $18 range. If somebody is coming in, you guys, one again, this should have been handled on your phone interview. But if you've got a girl or guy coming in that's like, oh, I make $20 an hour. And you're like, oh, I was really hoping to pay 17. Like that might be a big

 

difference. But to Demi's point, if they were getting paid $20 an hour because they didn't get any PTO, they didn't get paid holidays, they had to take mandatory vacations when doctor was off, maybe you do have a 401k option for them or a medical package that they can pay into. You could have something that they were getting paid $20 an hour to compensate for.

 

So dig into that with them. Let them know like, yeah, fantastic. You were getting paid $20 an hour. I'm willing to go 17, maybe $18 an hour, but you've got to also understand like, you are paying X amount of money for your medical every month or for life insurance. A lot of practices will offer life insurance. Like these are things that are setting them up for success in the future. So I love that you said that today. Know what you're offering and know your handbook, you guys. If you're doing interviewing,

 

you're extending an offer, know your handbook and know what that person's going to be eligible for. I've had plenty of doctors that are like, wow, should I give more PTO? Should I bring them on at this and then offer them more? Should I give it to them sooner than what they should be getting? So in my handbook, it says at 90 days or at six months, you get X, Y, and Z. Should I give it to them right off the gates or right off the gates? Dine, I want to know your opinion.

 

I get asked this question a lot. Doctors are like, well, should I give them the moon? And I'm like, well, if you give them the moon now, my opinion, if you give them the moon now to convince them to come to your practice, what are you setting as the expectation for the future? Like, where does that moon go from here? And why did the rest of your team have to work for it or wait for it? But this special person doesn't. So I think it sets the stage on both sides for

 

Tiffanie (10:48.907)

I call it, because I have this princess mentality. I surely have princess mentality. I'm like the passenger princess. I don't like my sister when we're driving and I get a good parking spot, she's like, oh, princess parking for Tiff. I'm like, I know. So I know how easily that can like come into play. Danae's laughing because she's like, I could totally see that. I know, it's me. I'm okay with it. But I think you create that within people, right? As they're onboarding, that's like your.

 

Denae Black (10:52.56)

Thank you.

 

Denae Black (11:00.878)

Thank you.

 

Tiffanie (11:16.611)

crucial spot to really be able to set the stage for your expectations for that person. So Danae, I love that. Know your top range. Know what you're actually offering. And then Danae, when doctors call you, because I know you've got a ton of doctors hiring all the time, when they call you and they're like, do we give them the PTO right out the gates instead of making them wait the six months? What's your position on that? What do you think? And it could be totally opposite than mine, you guys. We did not talk about this prior because it just popped into my head.

 

Denae Black (11:44.594)

Yeah. My position on it is it's going to be more about your company, more about what they're joining big picture. And so yes, could you give them PTO? Is that going to be the one thing that sways one or the other? It might be. And in that case, I think yes, in that case, if it is truly the one thing that they're like, look, I'm walking away from three, four weeks paid vacation,

 

Tiffanie (12:03.937)

Mm-hmm.

 

Denae Black (12:13.734)

I'm good with coming in for two weeks vacation, but I need it available right away. That could truly be a deciding factor. And in that case, I would say I wouldn't personally want to lose that candidate over two weeks of paid time off, but I would definitely focus in on big picture. Hey, this is who we are. This is where we're going. This is the path that you have while you're with my organization.

 

So hone in on that. But yes, I would say if it truly is, if you can dig in and you can ask the hard questions and say, is this the only thing that's keeping you from accepting this position? I probably wouldn't let that person walk over a week or two of paid time off.

 

Tiffanie (12:55.743)

Yeah. Yeah, I love that. I love that. And notice you guys too, it wasn't the whole world. She's like, what is it that's keeping you from? So it's not the whole she didn't say like, okay, well, we'll offer all of these things out the gates. She said, is this the thing that's holding you back? What's the one thing that's holding you back? Because if you've got a waiting period, we'll call it on everything. But that two weeks paid vacation is the thing that they need right away. That's the thing that they could get.

 

immediately. So I love that. And I love when we have differing opinions because you guys, this is what we're here for. This is what Dental 18 is here for, is to create systems and protocols that fit for you and for your timeline, for where your practice is, for what you guys need. And that is why we're customizable. We are not the team that's ever going to come in and be like, X, Y, and Z, this is how Dental 18 does it. We have systems that work, we have protocols that work, and we change them to fit your practice the best we know how.

 

So I love when we have differing opinions. Okay, so we know what we wanna pay. We know our top range, we know our handbook, front to back, like the back of our hand, we've got it all down. Now, how do you know when you're ready to extend an offer? So you've got all the information, the logistics are done, you've done a ton of interviewings. Denae, how do you know, like, okay, this is the person, this is the candidate, and I'm ready to make this offer?

 

Denae Black (14:21.546)

Um, that's a great question, Tiff. I think after you've gone through the logistics and this is going to be a good person, you know, logistically, they're going to be able to work the hours that you need them to work, you know, what they're looking for, as far as compensation goes, it's something that you can truly offer them, you know, that your team loves them, that your team has had a chance to get to know them, uh, your team is like, yeah, I think this is going to be a great fit.

 

Tiffanie (14:24.231)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

 

Denae Black (14:48.054)

they might have some different areas that we need to work on with them, which is fine, but overall this potential candidate is going to be a good fit for our team. Then I think, you know, you're ready. You know, you're ready to extend the offer and I would not sleep. I wouldn't sit on it. I really wouldn't. In today's market, you have people going, I mean, they're offering positions over the first initial phone interview.

 

Tiffanie (15:13.748)

Yeah, yeah, I agree.

 

Denae Black (15:15.274)

I wouldn't sit on it. I would definitely like it. As soon as you know, this person, your team's going to like them logistically. It's going to be a good fit. You like them and they're a good core value fit. I would extend an offer.

 

Tiffanie (15:27.647)

Yeah, I agree. I agree. I've had a lot of practices that have waited too long. And they've gotten on the phone with the person and they're like, Oh, I just accepted an offer last week and you know, I'll get back to you if this doesn't work out. And sometimes that does happen that the offer they accepted didn't work out. I've had I've had interviewees say, gosh, I was really hoping to hear from you sooner. I just accepted something, but I really wanted to work with your team. So I'll keep you in mind.

 

I'm like, ah, dang it, like we sat on it for a little bit too long. And I do have those doctors that like him and Han don't want to make the decision. Um, but I think that's part of it. And that's part of, that's part of the weeding out process. So as soon as you know, you're like, okay, the interviews are done. The team loved them. They hit all of these markers and I can train them to do these pieces over here. And I have training and onboarding ready to go set up for them. Call them right away. Be excited. I am so excited to chat with you today. I'm so excited for what's to come.

 

I am offering you this position and I'm so excited to welcome you onto the team. This is what it would look like. Where are you at with that? I think if you go into it, this goes back to that fearful mindset, that fear of rejection mindset. If we go into it like, hey, I'm really hoping you're still available. I'm hoping that you're going to come on board. This is what I'm prepared to offer you. Now you've just put...

 

I don't know, it's not exciting at all. You've just put yourself way underneath that interviewee and that potential candidate and given them a lot of power. And no matter what, everything is about a balance of power. And that right there, if you called me and offered me a position like that, I'd be like, what's, okay, well, what's wrong with this offer? What can I, what more can I get? What are you holding back on that you're not offering me right out the gates?

 

and I'm going to be skeptical. And so just by nature, you offering me a position in that demeanor, just by nature, I'm going to be skeptical. And I'm going to say, okay, well, I really need to think about this. I'm not sure because you're not confident about the offer. You're not confident. You don't sound confident about me coming on. You're afraid that I'm not ready. I'm not available, that maybe I'm too good for the position. And I'm going to say, okay, well, I think I need to think about this. Let me get back to you.

 

Tiffanie (17:46.387)

And that's when people are like, oh, well, like, I can offer you this and this and this. And that's where things get crazy. So I think if you go into that offer with full confidence, full excitement, know your value, know your practices value and know that they need you just as much as you need them. That's when you can bring on good team members in my opinion. Um, Denae, what do you think the offer needs to look like? Does it?

 

Is it a phone call? Is it an email? Is it a written letter? Like there are so many different things. And I think dentistry is, dentistry is so wonky because we sit in this world where we're just kind of honestly making stuff up half the time. And we're pulling from like different businesses and other companies. And we're looking at big companies that you get this offer letter and you get this grandiose email. That's like, we're so excited, right? If you're going to some corporate.

 

tech company, you're going to get an email of this amazing offer outlining everything. But then you've also got what we normally do is like a phone call. You've got the chiropractor that's like, hey, come on board. We sit in this area of gray in dentistry and just really don't have good protocols set up. So what do you think a good offer looks like? How should they do it? We know the logistics of what they're offering now, but how should that go down?

 

Denae Black (19:08.898)

So I do think the first thing is a phone call. It's calling them, don't initially let them know that here's the offer and this is the, we wanna officially offer you the position through an email. Call them, you're excited about this, right? They should be excited about this. So coming off super confident and telling them, I'm so excited to officially offer this position to you. We cannot wait to have you join our team.

 

I then would recommend, especially depending on the state you live in, some states it is mandated that you send them a written offer letter. I'd recommend it either way. It makes you look that much more professional, right? It levels up that whole experience of offering the position, but it also gives you something to default back to if there was ever any miscommunication on what you offered. So I would make the phone call, send in the offer.

 

Tiffanie (19:55.836)

Exactly.

 

Denae Black (20:04.05)

via email, have them sign that offer letter and send it back to you is what I typically would recommend.

 

Tiffanie (20:08.227)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love that, I love that. I think you're 100% right, and I've had to default back onto those previously. Like when I was in practice, I've had doctors hire office managers that we've had to default back onto that. Like, well, remember, this is what it was. And I think another good piece to add into that email too, the offer letter, something that they can sign with that offer letter. So probably the same letter in the email.

 

format, but then they've got an attachment there that they can print and sign, and then also the handbook. Like give them that handbook right out the gates and have them start reviewing that right away, and then any training documentation that you guys might have. So if you've got like an Onboarding for Success step-by-step map, a roadmap, or a journey that they can take, you want that attached as well, and I think to Denae's point it just sets you up professionally, especially when you've got all of those pieces together, they're like, wow.

 

They are put together. Like this is going to be a fantastic journey. And then. But there are bumps in the road when the training is not a hundred percent ready to go, but you had that roadmap that you guys can follow together, I think, to your point, like setting them up for that success and having those pieces in there. Now that email coming through looks so professional and it is so professional and it makes you, it sets you in a, in a different lighting. So that when those bumps in the road.

 

come along or the training isn't as fantastic as maybe they anticipated it would they're like in a different mindset so it's not quite as bad as the other version. I love it. I love it. Okay so when you're extending an offer these are the pieces you guys that you need to put together. Know what your pay range is. You should have already known that when you were doing your interview but that initial phone interview you guys chatted so just come to terms with what you guys had.

 

I don't know, like the median, right? So you had your range. So you've got your top, you've got your low, and they came in somewhere in the middle of that, hopefully, during your phone interview. So know what you're going to offer them and also know what your top is. Know your handbook front to back and know what your, oh my gosh, what you're offering them, okay? I couldn't even think of that word. Know what you're offering them. Know what your benefits packages are, your bonuses, all of those pieces, because those play a huge part in that.

 

Tiffanie (22:20.819)

And then call them when you're ready to offer, call them do it quickly. You guys, I want you to hire. They used to say hire slow fire fast. Right. So I want you to hire slowly, um, in air quotes there, but it can't be like a month's worth. It can't be even three weeks. Like it's gotta be, you guys start to finish. And it's gotta be like a week and a half, two weeks with all of the interviews in there at the longest, in my opinion, to me, do you agree?

 

Denae Black (22:47.766)

I agree.

 

Tiffanie (22:48.959)

Yeah, it's just happening so fast and you guys need to do it. So know your range, know your benefits packages, get this done within a week to two weeks and then offer them, extend that offer to them by phone and then follow it up with an email with the same offer written out, something they can sign for that, a handbook and any training documentation you guys might have. Danae, do you feel like there's anything else that could really level up this offer? I think we went through a ton.

 

But is there anything on the top of your mind that you feel like if they did this one more thing, it would really separate their offer from other people?

 

Denae Black (23:23.506)

I don't think there's anything else. I would just say the last four to five podcasts we've had have been from the very beginning of how to create your avatar, going all the way down to where we are right now with the system of how to actually be ready to put out an offer. When you have all of those well-defined systems in your practice, it gives you the ability to run fast in the hiring process, but run smoothly.

 

And so you're not rushing to hire somebody that is not actually a good candidate for you, but it is gonna start with having all of those systems well-defined so that you can be prepped and ready to hire fast.

 

Tiffanie (24:07.071)

Yeah, I love that. That was brilliant. Thank you. All right, guys. She gave you all the info. You've got it all here. Go back and listen to the other podcasts. If you number one, haven't listened to them yet, go back and listen to them so that you can make the right offer. And if you have listened to them, but you feel like, okay, I just need a refresher, go back and listen to them. We're always here for you. You guys can reach out to us at hello at the dental a team.com we are happy to help answer questions. I know we get flooded with questions all the time about the interview process and we truly answer all of them.

 

Our clients are always hiring too. So we've got a lot of experience in this world. Reach out, also drop us a five star review. We love hearing from you guys. We wanna know if this content was relevant for you and if it was helpful. And if you extend an offer and it's amazing, we wanna hear that too. So let us know and we'll catch you next time.