Episode 683: When + How (Much) to Hire a Dental Consultant

Kiera joins Brian Hanks to answer oft-asked questions by new practice owners about hiring dental consultants. This is an extremely valuable episode for new, up-and-coming, and even seasoned owners. Kiera and Brian touch on the following:

• Areas where new owners can hire help

• Whether to outsource or not

• Price of hiring a dental consultant (and how to tell if someone’s a good consultant)

• Roles of consultants versus practices

• And more!

Episode resources:

Listen and subscribe to The Practice Purchased Podcast

Listen to episode 390, What’s the TRUE Value of Your Practice?

Reach out to Kiera: [email protected] 

Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast

Become Dental A-Team Platinum!

Review the podcast

Transcript:

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0:00:00.0 Kiera Dent: Hey everyone, welcome to the Dental A Team podcast. I'm your host, Kiera Dent. And I had this crazy idea that maybe I could combine a doctor and a team member's perspective. Because let's face it, dentistry can be a challenging profession with those two perspectives. I've been a dental assistant, treatment coordinator, scheduler, filler, office manager, regional manager, practice owner and I have a team of traveling consultants where we have traveled to over 165 different offices, coaching teams. Yep, we don't just understand you, we are you. Our mission is to positively impact the world of dental, and I believe that this podcast is the greatest way I could help elevate teams, grow VIP experiences, reduce stress and create A teams. Welcome to the Dental A Team podcast. Hello Dental A Team listeners, this is Kiera and you guys, I did a super fun podcast with Brian Hanks. He is the owner of Dental Buyer Advocates. So for those of you needing a new practice, or those of you thinking about purchasing or those of you who know someone who's wanting to do this, this is the podcast for you. He asked me a ton of questions about when do you hire a consultant and why should you hire a consultant and how do you look for a great consultant? So I thought it'd be a great crossover episode for all of you and I hope you all enjoy.

0:01:20.0 Brian Hanks: My favorite line, from when you go talk and just remind people that Dent is actually your real last name and you had it before you started your consulting career in dentistry. Is that true?

0:01:33.4 KD: This is all true. You just forgot to mention that it took me three fiance's to get it. So there was a price associated with such a great last name in dentistry, of two failed engagements to get the third. But it was worth it. I'm here for it and yes.

0:01:46.5 BH: I love it. And I've actually asked you about your marriage and you tell me you have the best marriage in the world. And so there you go.

0:01:51.7 KD: I do.

0:01:52.4 BH: Yep. Yes.

0:01:53.2 KD: It was worth the... I mean the other two, they were really rough laughs names, who would really want those? I mean, I definitely had to upgrade the last name. Surely.

0:02:01.7 BH: So Kiera, you run the Dental A Team Consultancy, world famous, you guys have a stellar reputation around the country. I'm sure most folks have heard of you. Let me ask you this. My clients are buyers. A lot of them need consultants. They want consultants, they don't know... They know... Lots of things, they don't know. And then they also know that they don't know lots of things that they don't know, right? And so when would you tell a brand new buyer, who by the way has $400,000 in student loans, just borrowed another 1.5 million to buy the practice and the building and they're feeling the financial pressure. When should they realistically actually hire a practice management consultant? And we'll talk about the differences between consultants and things, but your generic practice management consultant, when would you recommend they hire?

0:02:44.7 KD: Well Brian, thanks for saying that, because you honestly spoke exactly to who I was when I purchased my first practice with a dentist. She was technically a million in debt, thank you, Midwestern student loans. 900,000 of student loan debt. We had to spend 2 million to buy our practice. And that also involved another construction loan on top of it to move our practice. And I will tell you, I made so many dang mistakes 'cause I didn't know what the heck I was doing that, yes, it feels like you're a lot in debt, but I wish that I would've had somebody coach me through all the pieces. So for a new practice owner, what I would say is get something of some sort of help from the beginning because you're going to save thousands of dollars of actual dollars but also of your ROI time and mental stamina. And I think that to me was the hardest lesson being a new practice owner, having all the student loan and debt. We were trying to skimp and save and I think we cut corners in areas that I wish we wouldn't have cut corners. Cut corners and don't need to buy as many fancy Schmidt supplies like we got by with all the instruments and all the different pieces we could have. But I would say having a good coach. But again, coaching is kinda like marketing.

0:03:47.0 KD: And I would say, and I say this with respect in the industry, make sure that the coach you hire is actually going to get you an ROI, as opposed to just coaching you, 'cause I do think that there can be some things with marketing, with other pieces, but make sure every financial decision you make is going to make you at least two times what you're paying, was kind of my standard of what I wish I would've done as a new owner. So I would definitely recommend within your first three months, otherwise definitely within your first year. But I think you can save a lot of time, heartache and financial decisions by hiring sooner.

0:04:18.0 BH: Okay, sooner than later. I love it. I'm gonna come back. First of all, I love your metric of two to one. There's three different questions I can ask about that. But I wanna go back to one of the earlier... The earliest part of your answer was there's lots of different areas where a new owner could hire help, right? And help can mean lots of different things. It could be an additional employee, it could be someone to manage the website, could be an insurance credentialing expert, it could be you helping me talk through things like... So I hear most buyers nervous about two things. I'll kind of lump everything into "Marketing" and I'm doing air quotes right now. Marketing being patient acquisition, not losing the patients that I just bought. Getting your butts in the seeds, etcetera, Google reviews, etcetera. All of those things. So there's the marketing bucket and then there's the people bucket. What am I missing? What else should people be thinking about and looking to say, Where am I gonna get the biggest bang from elk buck first? Well, just name the categories for me. Where should I be thinking about help?

0:05:19.5 KD: So I always wait for... My criteria, for me, whenever I'm adding something is how is this going to propel me forward? So I'm not gonna hire just any team member. I hire really expensive treatment coordinators who are gonna close cases for me because that's gonna put more production on my schedule. I'm not gonna just go hire marketing for the sake of getting Google reviews. Are those Google reviews actually gonna translate into new patients? Because if they're not, let me spend something that's actually gonna get me those new patients. So I really think, for me, it was what additional skills could I add on? So for us, we spent a lot of money actually on skill acquisitions. So implants, ortho, again because those are bringing a massive ROI to the practice, they're making us a much better practice. So depending upon where you are as a new buyer, if you're doing an acquisition, yes for sure you gotta keep those patients, but you already have quite a bit of "production and revenue" within your practice because you bought, that's why you buy an existing practice, is for that ROI. If it's a startup practice, you've definitely gotta invest in marketing because you need those patients to feed the bills. And so that's where I would invest. So depending upon what part of the practice you're in is really gonna determine which zone I would invest in. So yes, there's the people but be careful on your people.

0:06:26.2 KD: You don't need all the pieces. You could outsource quite a few things for much less. Don't go hire a brand new biller, let's outsource that 'cause that's definitely way less of the cost as opposed to having to bring in a biller. Maybe you don't need an office manager right away, but you need a really killer treatment coordinator who can close cases for you and you can manage the team from the beginning. But if you don't know how to do that and you're not great with people, I would also say hire help in the areas you are not strong. So if you're not great with people management, hire somebody who can help with people management. If you're not good with bookkeeping or finances, get a really good bookkeeper. But for sure I'm really big on with a new practice. Yes, you've got your people making sure you've got right people that are awesome and don't go for cheap labor. I remember hiring my first treatment coordinator who I could not afford and I told her, "You've got three months to prove yourself, 'cause I can't pay for you after three months" She proved that she could be well worth every penny I spent. But that... Definitely marketing, I think you can actually do a lot more with internal referrals, especially if you're buying right from the get-go to save some costs there. And then I would say you've gotta make sure you've got a dang good bookkeeper who actually can help keep your finances good.

0:07:32.9 KD: And so you know if your cash flow is actually there or not. Those would be the three areas. And I know Brian, they're really not sexy and they're not fun, but I think those three areas, if you really dive into and or the fourth of being additional skillset addition, if you can actually add it to your practice, don't go do it for the ego of I know how to do implants. Do it because you're actually gonna put them into the practice and be strategic of which ones you do first.

0:07:55.6 BH: I love it. Did I hear correctly that Dental A Team, just in general, you see most often... So your answer is a little more subtle than this, right? I'm gonna pigeonhole you in an answer, but your real answer was it kind of depends, right? The biggest ROI for your buck is going to be where I am as weakest as a new buyer. But I also heard you say, is most buyers tend to be weakest around people and they're gonna probably see the biggest bang for the buck around just understanding how to manage a team really well and get butts in the seats. Have those butts... I shouldn't refer them as butts, but have patients actually accept treatment and come back and leave... So I hear people being maybe the most common answer. Is that a fair statement?

0:08:44.2 KD: I think it's a fair statement, especially for new owners. And the reason I think it's a fair statement is because in dental school, which I have the excellent vantage point of working at a dental school, so I actually know what you learn in school. I worked at Midwestern University for three years. You don't learn the people side of it and you're so stressed as a new owner of being able to handle... All these patients now are dependent on you. You haven't ever owned your own business before. You're trying to do the show dazzle and wow on the dentistry side, that who is taking care of your billing, who is making sure the cases are closing? So I think the best ROI, second to a coach who can help make sure you hire good people is hiring a great office manager but not just an office manager in namesake. They've gotta be a good treatment coordinator and great with billing and great with people. So three criterias. But I found that new owners who have that person in play, they are always way more successful and further ahead than anybody else that I've ever seen come into it. So that would be my number one hire. If you already have a great office manager, my second great hire would be either a treatment coordinator or a biller depending upon what's already in the practice or what you already have of skillset. But don't be afraid to maximize the skills of the people already in the practice before you go hire somebody else.

0:09:56.6 BH: Yeah. Which a good consultant can teach me to do. Okay, now I'm gonna come back to the two to one and some of the money stuff around a consultant, but this is a really fun fact about you. How many practices have you owned? And just give me a couple highlights from your ownership experience.

0:10:10.1 KD: Got it. So I have personally owned three. I've been kind of silent partners in many others. And our first one, I think is our most impressive, it was 500,000 to 2.4 million in nine months. And then we bought our second practice and that was with a brand new grad, straight out of school. We bought our second practice nine months in, ended up with seven practices all together. I sold out of that and then I owned in Arizona and then I've owned in a little other places, but those are very off dealies. I'm not really on the the pieces. So I don't know Brian what else you wanna know from it, but...

0:10:40.4 BH: No, just the fact, that 500,000 to 2.4 in nine months, that sticks in my memory, 'cause so a few people have done that. And then, it's one thing to... Like for me, yeah, I've done taxes and accounting and so I understand this world. It's another thing for me to go in and say, "Yeah, that should be a crown out of a filling" I mean that's... I know the words but I haven't lived that world. But you have, you've owned a practice, you've taken these practices up so you have the credibility, so with that in mind...

0:11:04.9 KD: And let's also say, within that, we also had to... Our building was being torn down because they were building a new dental...

0:11:12.6 BH: That's right, yes. I forgot about that.

0:11:14.8 KD: Practice at the same spot. So not only did I have to move this whole patient base, build up another building, get a whole patient base to move down and then know that I'm having a competitor build right where this dental practice was within one year of doing so. So there was a lot on the stakes, but I think... And also with a brand new grad. And so that's also why I think I love consulting so much Brian, is because I feel like I'm not just a consultant who has theories, but our company is literally based on people who have been there, done that and done it successfully. Why on the earth would you ever take the long route and not just... Success leaves clues, why not just ask and get the answers if you have it available?

0:11:50.4 BH: Yeah. Well and I think the answer, at least most buyers that work with me would say is, because it's expensive and I'm nervous and I don't know that I have the money and I have this working capital loan from the bank, but I'm not sure when it's gonna run out. So okay, with that in mind, what's a good consultant that's gonna help me with my team, that's gonna help me maybe either hire the next right person or like you... I really love what you said, really get my existing team firing on all cylinders. Take them from maybe A, B and C players to all A players, which maybe never happens, but...

0:12:20.1 KD: I've never learned of that. So teach me.

[laughter]

0:12:26.1 BH: DBA, all of our team anyway. No, we have... Okay, so how much is a good consultant gonna cost me and how do they typically charge? Give me a ballpark range for you, your competitors. You can stay as general or specific as you want.

0:12:42.9 KD: Sure. So if you want virtual, right off the bat, you're looking usually about 20 grand annual, give her a plus or minus and that means not as much hands on, they're going to be more coaching you and also a lot of consulting companies will do specific systems. So take a look and see what are you looking for. For me, I never worked with a consultant, so what Dental A team did, I purposely built what I wish I would've had as a new owner and as a team, I think I've got a very unique perspective of both sides of the coin. And so I said we're gonna just make something that I wish I would've had as a resource for it. So if you want virtual, you're usually looking in that 20 grand range. I might plan $2,000 a month for that, for coming in, which that is our highest package, and most companies, when they come in person, you're looking about 50 grand is typical for that. We're a little bit less than that, but we're in that price point of what it's gonna be in that area. So with that, knowing that, I would just say people are scared. So let me just break it down. If it's $2,000 a month.

0:13:40.6 BH: Sure.

0:13:41.0 KD: Or let's say it's $4,000 a month. Okay. So either side of it, let's just make it very simple for you guys. You have to think I'm an absolute ludicrous consultant, if I can't add two crowns to your schedule. That's all the cost is and I think doctors get so scared of that, but I'm like between lowering your overhead, fixing your team, closing more cases and being able... If I closed one case and got one more crown on your schedule or two or three or four, you would have to think I'm an absolute ludicrous consultant if I'm not good at that and I can't put my name on that. So while yes, it was terrifying and I've been there and that's why I love to speak to your crowd, Brian. And I love what you guys do. I'm so proud of who you guys are and just love being affiliated with you, sent plenty of people to you guys, 'cause I just think you guys do it really well. But I think it's gotta be a piece of, if they can't put their name on it and guarantee that ROI, now I can give you the tools, but if you don't show up and do it, that's not on us. That's you. You've gotta execute on it too. But when people are scared of that money, I'm like, Let's break it down into the actual treatment.

0:14:39.5 KD: Dentistry is a very lucrative industry in the fact of, I'm not saying to over-diagnose, but I am saying if I can close your cases, even one or 2% more, if you're diagnosing X number add a 1 or 2 or 5% to that, which honestly a good consultant should be able to teach you guys how to do that. And I'm a consultant I'm gonna do a quick ROI, I'm not an idiot. I know you've got high loans, I know you've got a lot of things on you, so I need to get you a quick win where your production is either going up or your overhead's going down so that cash flow is there. Now you get scared and there's different pieces, but I feel like if you can commit to that and you have someone who's on that side and who knows about getting you a quick win, you've got to realize, break it down into the procedure mix of how much is that consultant actually going to cost. And then it becomes easy for you. I know I could add two more crowns to cover my consulting fee. That's an easy thing because I often just under diagnose or I'm not saying something or let me just add in AI, which is gonna help put everything there and you're definitely gonna be able to pay for it.

0:15:37.9 KD: But typically what I found is with a good consultant, they are looking at those pieces. And for me, I don't wanna sit there in dilly-dally with you, I wanna make sure that we're having you get a quick ROI because I know how stressful it is to have loans. But I think a good one is gonna actually pay for themselves multiple times over.

0:15:54.1 BH: Well, the principal that I teach a lot of buyers, very similar to what you're talking about. I teach them... Most buyers come to me about five, between five and seven years out of their education, whether it was a GPR/AEGD, four years of dental school, some kind of specialty, etcetera. And I tell them, I wish we could have talked one year after you were done with schooling because those four extra, five extra, six extra years, now you feel better talking to me because you've gotten your loans under control, but you're forgetting there was an opportunity cost to that lost time. And so you're saying the exact same thing. You're saying, "Hey, I can get your practice to a point, I can get your team to a point, I can get you to a point, where you are more effective and I'm gonna help you measure it" I wanna come back to some of those measurements. 'Cause those were cool, but you're saying, it's gonna cost you. It's gonna cost you some money to get to that point, but there's a return on investment there. And eventually that consultant's gonna go away and those skill sets are going to be elevated in theory forever.

0:16:49.5 KD: Right. Right. And that's where I think you just really need to be smart on what is that consultant going to do in your practice, because certain things are systems and skills, which are great to have, but as a new owner, I don't wanna Kumbaya and I don't wanna just sit here and build foundation all day long when I've got heavy bills. So I think you need a consultant that understands both because I think foundation and systems and structure are super important, but there's also a cash flow piece that you've gotta make sure that you're watching and an overhead piece to make sure that you are not getting deeper and deeper and deeper into debt. Because all that does is create stress and chaos, which is the last thing we need a new owner to have. Our goal is to minimize that, exponentially increase the cash flow for you. So and also help you be an educated business owner too. I think for me as a new business owner, I didn't understand cash flow or overhead, so I feel like I was just trying to add more things to the fire, but I didn't have the tools to know which lever to turn to make it the most bang for my buck and for my time.

0:17:46.1 BH: Let me ask one more timing question and then I wanna... You used the phrase good consultant. I'm gonna ask you how you would assess a good consultant here in a second, but just back on timing. A lot of buyers will come to me and I'll talk to them 30, 60, 90 days after they buy the practice check in. How are you doing universally? Those first 30 days are stressful, right? They're just underwater, they're trying to figure out everything, everything is new, every patient interaction is new and there isn't a lot of opportunity to change things, right? They're just trying to keep their head above water. Does it make sense to hire that consultant before I close or would it make more sense for me to get 45, 60, maybe 75 days past closing date and just feel like, Okay, phew, yes, I do know how to run payroll, people can get paid. Oh yes. I actually do know how people run a credit card through the front. Is that the wrong way of thinking about it?

0:18:38.0 KD: Brian, I don't think that there is a wrong way to think about this, I think don't be afraid and don't make the decisions from fear, but I call it the 90-day shakeout, aka almost six months shakeout. So as a new business owner, any time you buy a practice, any time you start, there is 90 days of pure shenanigans that are just psychotic. I remember not sleeping and it was 2:00 AM to 10:00 PM, and I'm like, oh my gosh, we can make it. And I said it was a 90-day shakeout before I even felt remotely confident, so just know like, that is normal. It's never gonna change, and just because you're a new owner doesn't mean you're doing it wrong. Your next practice you buy, you're gonna have the same dang thing. So don't be afraid of it. It's there for you. But to your point, Brian, I think it can go one of two ways. One is if you don't feel like you can take anything else on, that's the wrong way to think about it, 'cause a good consultant should be able to take things off your plate...

0:19:25.7 BH: [0:19:26.1] ____ off your plate. Yes. Exactly.

0:19:29.0 KD: But at the same time, I think for me, the benefit of hiring somebody right away is I literally have dental Google and a little dental fairy godmother at my fingertips. Any time something's going wrong, I shoot them a text, I ask them like, what would you do? That is definitely a benefit to hiring sooner. The benefit to hiring later is you don't feel like you have as many things going on, you have a little bit more breathing room. So I recommend, if someone knows they're gonna hire a consultant, hire us a month before close because there's a ton of things we can actually put into play.

0:19:58.3 KD: I call the month before a close, you don't wanna... When you're about to have a baby, that month before you have a baby... I don't even have a kid, but I can imagine that month before that baby comes, you're like, okay, I can get things done, and then that baby shows up and it's like screaming, crying all these things, you wanna make sure you've got some systems in play, you've got the pieces put together, so when that baby does deliver aka you buy your practice, systems are in play to make it less stressful for you because it's still gonna scream, it's still gonna cry.

0:20:24.1 KD: You're still gonna try and dazzle your team and your patients, but at least you've got some structure and you aren't trying to learn everything all on day one, so either way, I think is fine. It just depends on your personality. Do you want someone guiding you holding your hand, walking through those first 90 days that are pure mayhem, or you're like, "No, I need to get a wrap on it"? I'm like, if you got a wrap on it, why do you need a consultant? Honestly, it's just kind of a silly question to ask, but I think that that's the fallacy that we often think of. "Let me just get things under control and then I'll call you" and I'm like, but why would I call for a doctor when I've already healed myself, I wouldn't.

0:20:57.6 BH: I need to... You're taking a feeling. I wanna feel a certain way before I pick up that phone call, and you got it backwards. You're going to feel a certain way after you make the phone call. It makes sense.

0:21:10.5 KD: But again, it's cash flow, and I think that truthfully, Brian, I think the best answer I have around cash flow and how you do your money is I think that there is a mental ROI, not necessarily a financial ROI all the time, and so if for you having 20,000 in the bank gives you security as opposed to spending it, you just have to accept that that's who you are as a person, and maybe there's a way to get that security and still get the coach. I think oftentimes, there is an and, it doesn't have to be an or. But I really do think finances are funny and they play a lot with our emotional and our families and our physical stamina.

0:21:44.4 KD: And so I think that that is something to not be dismissed. You really do need to look at that emotional ROI. My husband, he could not see anything until we paid off his student loan, so also coming... My husband's a pharmacist, I know what it feels like to have student loans, guys, like I have been that family, I know the stress of having massive loans. I was super annoyed because we paid them off literally December 2019.

0:22:05.3 KD: He graduated in May 2015. So just so you know, I do know how to pay loans off quickly. And then freaking COVID and they all went on pause and no more interest. I was so bothered, but it's fine, but I do think you've really got to pay attention 'cause my husband could not sleep with knowing those loans are on him, so I think you have to take note of that mental ROI, of what it does for your psyche and what can you deal with, but don't allow that to be a crutch as well, to not get the help or the support that would really benefit you long-term.

0:22:35.3 BH: Love it, good answer, Kiera. Let me shift gears for a second, let's talk about the phrase good consultant. I have you on because I believe you are a good consultant, I've talked to lots of clients, I've seen you present, I've read your newsletter for years, I listen to your podcast. All kinds of different things.

0:22:50.6 KD: Thank you.

0:22:51.6 BH: That's how I've determined... Of course. And I'm not saying that lightly. Now, there are, I don't even know, there's the Academy of Dental Consultants, I think, and there's probably hundreds of names on that list. So in theory, I've got hundreds of different options and how to pick a... How would you choose a competitor, right? You're now a practice owner, you can't hire Dental A Team. Sorry, it's off the table, there's some non-compete or something like that, or...

0:23:17.5 KD: Don't worry, we're too booked up that we have a wait list and you need help today.

0:23:19.0 BH: Yeah, there we go. Exactly.

0:23:21.8 KD: That's what it is. Okay, I got it, got it. I want them, but I can't have them. Okay.

0:23:27.8 BH: How do you pick somebody? Is it just call around and see who used whom and personal referrals, am I listening to podcasts like, what steps would you actually take to find a good consultant?

0:23:39.4 KD: Well, I love this because I think we can relate so much in dentistry, it's like, how do patients know if it's a good dentist or not? And for me, I actually think consulting is a little bit easier to understand because we actually have an ROI that can be a physical tangible piece that you can see, whereas dentistry, your patient just is like, I don't know if that was a good feeling or not, I just have to...

0:23:58.6 BH: Did it hurt or not? Exactly.

0:24:00.5 KD: Right, that's all they can get... So I do think number one, ask for friends and referrals of who they've had, but I do think go to that person because I think consulting is more of a personal piece. You've gotta be very... Just close with your consultant. You're sharing your finances of your business, you're sharing your best days and your worst days, I know my coach has seen me at my absolute worst, and I just trust that I can be vulnerable in front of her and she's not going to judge me. So, I often say, the way I determine if it's a good consultant or a good coach, 'cause I've vetted my own and I hire my own as well, is number one, do I like their philosophies? So how can I get a testimonial of this person? Do they have a podcast, do they have a newsletter, do they have a book? Read that style, listen to that podcast and see, do I resonate with their style? For Dental A Team, you can go back, you can listen to our tangibles, you can listen to My Life Skills, like... I don't believe it's just dentistry, it's life as well, so I try to have just like you guys, for your patients, you have your Instagram of your collage of what your patient testimonials look like, a consultant should have something and not just from...

0:25:03.0 KD: I don't want just people on there saying that they're great, I want you to be able to taste it, touch it, feel it, how can you experience it to make sure you even align with their fundamentals? So that would be number one, are you aligned with them and do you like their style? Because bottom line is, and I will say this with the most love and respect, most consultants are exactly the same. We are gonna teach the same things, we're gonna implement the same things and we're going to... It's just our flair and our style, and so for you, generally speaking, most of the consultants will do the same thing. Do you like them as a person, do you like their style? Me, I'm very high energy, I'm fun, I'm like, let's have a party. For our team summit, I'm sending spy boxes and it's multimillion dollar theme this year, and I'm sending money and blue fizz and all this fun confetti. If you like that and you're like, I want my team to be a part of that, cool, that would be the person. But if you're like, oh my gosh, that sounds psychotic. That girl talks way too fast. You wouldn't wanna work with me 'cause I attract the same type of people. So look for someone that you resonate with, and then I would ask for stats.

0:25:57.6 KD: What are they going to do? How do they do it? For me, ours is very much a customized way. I don't have a, "Here's your A to Z cookbook" because I believe that your problems come not in A to Z form, so we need to figure out, what are your pain point? What do we need to do? And it's basically like a treatment plan for a patient. So go to the consulting company and find out how are they going to fix your problem? How soon can you see an ROI? And that's where I think you can figure out. But for me, I also want my big stake in the ground, the thing that makes it is, have they been there and have they done that successfully? Because I don't want someone who thinks in theories and ideas. I want someone who knows what it fricking feels like at 10:00 o'clock at night when you've got some quitting on you and you can't afford payroll, and they've actually come through that pain, do they know how to actually guide me through it, and if they do and I like their style, that's the person I'm gonna hire, and I will happily write them a cheque because they just changed my life, they saved me from a lot of problems, and I'm gonna move forward with confidence.

0:26:53.0 KD: And I would say once you choose your consultant, don't get many consultants, people do consultant [0:27:01.3] ____ and they've got too many coaches that they can't make a decision, so stick with that person, commit with that person, but that's how I would determine a good consultant.

0:27:07.5 BH: I love it. How long does the average client work with you guys?

0:27:11.2 KD: So most of the time I say, I want you committed for a year because you've gotta be able to... There's a bunch of slush and we're gonna figure it all out, but then I'm building, for me and our clients, I'm building your foundation, so getting your ops manual in play, I have 12 systems, and I wanna make sure all those systems are actually in your practice, they're there. So we've got that piece, but then I'm also dealing with all your problems that come. So it's a proactive and a reactive piece getting you really educated as a business, so being able to read your P&L, making sure you've got cash flow, making sure you're profitable.

0:27:42.3 KD: I aim for our newer clients, I want to at least at a 60-65% like overhead, and then our really extreme clients, I want you... After you've been with us a year or two, I'm hoping that we get you down to that 50-55% overhead, because I believe as a business owner, one, as a dentist, you went through a lot of school, I am all about... I want you to be freaking wealthy and successful, and I want you to be proud of that because you went to a lot of schooling, and also the flip side of it, that benefits the team, me as a team member, when you're secure financially and you're doing really well, you're gonna pay your team better, I hope, and if not, I will teach you that you need to give back to the people who may do great, and two, you being more secure as an owner makes me secure as an employee, I know our business is going to be successful. So I'm all about you being very successful, very financially well off, but at the same time, making sure your balance around. So usually a year is typical, foundations getting things in play, getting that cash flow there, and then if you want year two, most clients work with us for one to two years, year two is leadership.

0:28:40.2 BH: Got it.

0:28:40.6 KD: But my model and what I would say any consultant you hire, they better teach you how to fish. Not have you dependent on them, because if you're dependent upon that consultant, I feel they failed you, they didn't teach you how to do this on your own, which at the end of the day, use them if they keep growing you, but don't use them because you depend on them.

0:28:57.4 BH: I love it. Okay, how often... Personally, if I were, heaven forbid, are a dentist running a practice and actually working in patient's mouths, which is the heaven forbid part, I would want the consult to come out, I would fly you out, I would pay the higher fee because I want you to meet tomorrow at the front desk and Stacy in the back room and my assistant Jennifer or whatever, I want you to understand the personalities, the dynamic and see the layout and all of those things. How often is a consultant flying out to see my practice, what is typical, what's normal, what should I expect?

0:29:30.3 KD: Yeah, I think all consultants do it a little bit differently, some people like to hire someone local, I actually don't work local, and I do it intentionally. So I live in Nevada and I do not have a single Nevada doctor, and that feels really dumb because this would be way easier for me to get to than flying across the country. However, I have actually found that when clients I'm too close to, they depend on me and they actually don't figure it out and then they don't block time, and they don't take it as seriously. And so I've done a lot of different things. I've flown out to offices like every so many months, I've got... And what I've actually found as a solid cadence is either two or three times a year, because what that does is it allows you...

0:30:08.0 KD: It takes a while to implement change, and so for us, when we fly to a practice, we don't shut the office down. I wanna see you in your natural habitat, I wanna watch your day-to-day, then we train your whole team, then we see it implemented, making sure things got worked through, but then I'm gonna check in with you and I don't come back and see you too soon, because if I come back to soon, the team doesn't feel like they won, they don't feel like they were able to gain any momentum before I come back in and do more changes, so I found usually anywhere from...

0:30:35.9 KD: I'd like to go about every six months is a good cadence, I've found. If you want more, maybe three, or if you're like, no, I want it for team morale and retreats as opposed to training, you might wanna see them a bit more often, but I've found unless you're on attraction mode and you want every quarter and we're doing quarterly leadership, that's a very different type of consulting, but I would say, generally, if you want us to come see the land, figure it out, come up with things for your team, I feel like once every six months. So two times a year is a really great cadence to have someone come in and then we can see and celebrate the wins and then give you the next layer, so you can work on it for six more months.

0:31:09.3 BH: Just a book check. You're referencing the book Traction. Is that the Traction one you were talking...

0:31:13.1 KD: Yes.

0:31:13.8 BH: I love that book. In fact...

0:31:13.9 KD: I do, too. And we've learned to do it...

0:31:18.3 BH: [0:31:18.4] ____.

0:31:18.3 KD: I see some orange there, yeah. I think it's just a great way. But traction is a great thing, I would not say though, for a brand new practice starting out, you're not there for traction.

0:31:24.8 BH: No.

0:31:28.2 KD: So let's get the foundations, let's get the basics, and then let's move you into traction when you're a little bit further along the path.

0:31:31.9 BH: You D3s and D4s listening right now, go read Traction. Sure, and then throw it on your bookshelf and then go work, buy a practice and then pick it back up, and you'll see a lot of new things you didn't see the first time through.

0:31:45.8 KD: For sure.

0:31:45.9 BH: Perfect. Okay. What do people not understand about consultants that they probably should? You've covered kind of everything. This is kind of a catch-all question. What am I... What's an intelligent question I'm not asking, Kiera?

0:31:56.9 KD: No, I think actually, the way you said it was perfect because I think people think an office or a consultant is a replacement or an interim office manager, and we are not. Some other people I think want to be, but again, why do I wanna pay a high price point for someone to be my office manager, go hire a great... 'Cause I used to be... I think the highest offer I was offered as an office manager was three days a week paid 150,000, and that was my highest offer.

0:32:24.1 BH: I would've paid it. Deal. Are you ready?

0:32:28.0 KD: Today I'm like, it might be a little bit more if I were to be an office manager.

0:32:29.2 BH: That's fair.

0:32:31.2 KD: But the point of that is, don't pay a really high consultant to be your office manager from my perspective, I feel a consultant, their job... I actually wanna use the word coach, I think a coach is a better definition, however, I've learned that dentists like... They like to have a consultant, I think it feels better for you to have a consultant, a coach feels a little, meh, we're not on the basketball court, but I think the coach is a better idea of how to view this person. They're not your office manager, they're not there to do your billing for you, that's not what a consultant's job is to do. They're there to teach you how to fish, they're there to push you when you need to be pushing, to say, stop doing this, you need to do this, or, hey, we need to do this in a way that empowers and inspires while also being direct with you. I think you've gotta have someone who is not afraid to tell you what you need to do. And that they're confident in that.

0:33:20.3 KD: So don't treat them or think of them as your interim office manager, they're not. They're not here to do all those pieces for you, they're there to coach you, they're there to set it up for you, they're there to help you, but they're your coach, they're your guide they're your mentor to guide you through this, but you don't want them as your team, you don't want them, like I am an extension of all of our teams, but I'm not sitting there answering phones or doing treatment plans, I'll listen to them and I'll give them guidance. And then the other thing is, be careful that that consultant is setting up systems for you that aren't people dependent. So I try really hard to... Everything I put into place, it's not based on the team, so...

0:33:58.0 KD: Yes, Brian, you said Tamara and these people. But Tamara might decide she wants to leave at some point, and if I do something that's specifically for Tamara and only teach Tamara that information that you invested in of me as an investment, as a consultant, just went out the door with Tamara. And so make sure consultants are setting up systems and you as an owner know what's going on, so I keep all of our owners involved, all the systems go to them, that way, they don't have to do it, but they actually are educated on it, so I think...

0:34:23.8 KD: Don't have them be an office manager, make sure that they build systems for you and they're not people-dependent, and then I also say make sure they're an advocate for you. I'm an advocate for doctors because it's a business, and I need to make sure that business is successful and thriving, and you as a doctor are confident and secure because you're gonna make better and smarter choices, and I think you deserve that life, but also they need to understand the team, but I think some consultants can either wane on either side, where maybe they're too doctor and business-centric that they forget how the team feels, or they're too team-centric that they're Kumbaya, you're like, cool, I need to make the bills. So I think you've gotta have a good balance between the two and make sure that that consultant can walk that line, which I actually think is pretty tricky to do, but when a consultant can do it, it's magic because they can see both sides of the coin.

0:35:10.5 BH: So that's perfect. This is a question I've often had and I forgot to write down before our call, what percentage of your time as a consultant are you talking with the doctor versus talking with anyone on their staff? Is it like 100% of the time I'm talking only to the doctor or 50/50. How does that typically... I'm sure the answer depends a little bit on the office, but what's the average?

0:35:30.3 KD: Yeah, it does depend on the office, but I'm always working with the doctor on mindset, on profitability, on those numbers. Also, where do they wanna go? If I don't have your leadership and your guidance, a lot of times I do think doctors, when they sign up for consulting, want to abdicate that and say, "Oh, go talk to my team," to me, that's very foolish and a waste because you are at the end of the day, the only person who's guaranteed to be there, but at the same time, you're a doctor, and I would be a foolish consultant to think that that doctor wants to do all the things I want you to do.

0:35:57.5 KD: So what I do is I typically have one call, it's usually a 30-minute call with my doctors every month, and then a 30, or excuse me, a 60-minute team training or working with the team, and then there's a ton of emails and calls in between, but that doctor, I need them for vision, I need them for direction, and I need them for mindset, and then also profitability. Also if your team's struggling, I need to have conversations to make you a better boss as well, but then I get your team involved, get them running the systems, get them implementing things, get them creating the processes, so it's not 50/50 per se, I think it's... Doctor is more intense, and then team is based on the needs of the practice, and then being able to reach out all the time.

0:36:32.9 KD: So if you need your team coach on treatment coordinating or how to close this case, or how to schedule or how to deal with the hygiene team, they come to us and we can resolve those problems while keeping you also in the loop. So to answer your question, Brian, I know you want a number, I would say 25% usually is doctor, 75% is team. Depending upon how much the doctor wants to be involved, but me as an owner, the last thing I wanna do is be so involved to where I have to do all the things, so my goal is actually free up the owners while keeping them involved.

0:37:03.8 BH: That's beautiful. Okay, Kiera, you have so many different resources, I'll plug TikTok here in just a second 'cause that's my favourite recent one. But the Virtual Academy is really cool, that's a lower price point option for people that just wanna get in and maybe try some of the tips, think they kinda do it themselves, etcetera. Obviously, there's a full consulting service, we've got... Tell me the name of the podcast because I've listened to it and I want people to really... That's an experience I think everybody should have.

0:37:33.4 KD: Yeah. So head on over to The Dental A Team Podcast, and I don't do it as cool as Brian does. We don't do seasons, but what I do is on our website you can...

0:37:41.3 BH: You are consistent though.

0:37:43.4 KD: I do a lot of podcasts. We do three a week. But what you can do is go to our website, thedentalateam.com, and click on Podcast, and there is a search bar. So any topic, anything that you want to know, you just search that in the search bar, it will come up. We have hundreds and hundreds of episodes. So I think it's a great resource for you that's free and a great way to experience it, but... Yeah, The Dental A Team Podcast.

0:38:03.9 BH: Awesome, and you do summits and... What's the handle on TikTok that I've seen? Sorry.

0:38:08.9 KD: It's Dental A Team.

0:38:11.6 BH: Is it just Dental A Team?

0:38:11.7 KD: It is Dental A Team. We're on TikTok, we're on Instagram. I try to snippet parts of the podcast for you guys, and we have our newsletter every single week that goes out...

0:38:19.4 BH: Which is really good. It's really good.

0:38:21.1 KD: Which I don't like it to just be fluff, so it's very tactical. Some people say I give away too much consulting away, but I figure if you guys can do it on your own or I can be a resource for you, do it without me, and I wanna teach you so much that you'll need me to help you figure out which one to prioritize and implement. So the podcast, the newsletter, we do have a full team summit every single year, so if you want a team like Boost and Charge and... 'cause I think getting that is a really hard thing to do and really high level CE, and then like you said, the virtual online.

0:38:47.6 KD: If you're worried about price point, I try to have all of it there, it's all CE, we are AGE-accredited and so training for every single position whether you practice ways. There's little videos that you can use for morning huddle. I try to make it a very DIY. So if you are the scare doctor or you're like, I just don't think I can afford this, having at least a really solid resource out there from free to low cost, to in the middle to nope, I wanna go high level. I try really hard to accommodate because I do know that that's a piece that maybe you're not quite ready for it, but you still need the resources, so let's have something available that's going to give you top notch high quality value for you as well.

0:39:22.5 BH: Thank you, Kiera Dent, owner of the Dental A Team. Kiera, thank you for being part of Practice Purchased.

0:39:27.3 KD: Thank you, Brian, it was such a pleasure. I truly respect and adore what you guys are doing, and I think you guys really are making an amazing impact in our world of dentistry. Thanks, it was an honor.

0:39:36.3 BH: Thank you.

0:39:39.8 KD: And that wraps it up for another episode of The Dental A Team Podcast. Thank you so much for listening and we'll talk to you next time.