Episode 709: Chick-fil-A’s Secret Sauce in YOUR Practice

 Kiera chats with Chick-fil-A owner and operator George Demetriades — and it’s all about applying the chain fast-food restaurant’s success into your dental practice. There’s a lot of gold packed into this episode, but some of the highlights include:

• Abiding by character, competence, community

• Creating realistic and attainable systems

• Hiring ideal employees

• Identifying high performers

• Acquiring a loyal fanbase

• Cultivating a consistent culture

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Transcript:

[music]

0:00:05.8 Kiera Dent: Hey, everyone, welcome to The Dental A Team Podcast. I'm your host, Kiera Dent. And I have this crazy idea that maybe I could combine a doctor and a team member's perspective. Because let's face it, dentistry can be a challenging profession with those two perspectives. I've been a dental assistant, treatment coordinator, scheduler, filler, office manager, regional manager, practice owner, and I have a team of traveling consultants, where we have traveled over 165 different offices coaching teams. Yep, we don't just understand you, we are you. Our mission is to positively impact the world of dental. And I believe that this podcast is the greatest way I can help elevate teams, grow VIP experiences, reduce stress, and create A Teams. Welcome to The Dental A Team Podcast.

[music]

0:00:51.6 KD: Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And oh my gosh, I am like fangirling so hard right now. If you guys have heard Dr. Nate Tillman, he was at Dental A Team Summit. And this year, we had a really strong theme where we talked about Chick-fil-A and how much their customer service and their experience is just unmatched. So after summit, Nate texted me and said, "Kiera, I have a friend. He owns some Chick-fil-A franchises. Would you be interested if I could get him on your podcast?" And oh my gosh, heart eyes, like gold stars galore. I have the one and only George Demetriades on today, owner of Chick-fil-A. He owns these. I am so giddy. George, welcome to the podcast. I have been so ecstatic to podcast with you.

0:01:34.8 George Demetriades: Well, thank you so much, Kiera. I really am grateful for the opportunity to chat with you guys. And yes, Nate is a very, very close friend of many, many years. If I mess this up, then I don't know Nate. It's not Nate's fault. And we'll make up a name of Sam Schmuckatelli, the dentist in Popple or something like that, that referred me to you. So.

[laughter]

0:01:56.3 KD: Oh my gosh, no, honestly, George, you're seriously so nice. And Nate is incredible. And for those of you who like, if you're just listening, be sure to snag our little snippets of this one. You literally can see George's name tag on. He is sitting in Chick-fil-A corner office right now, hanging out. He's in boots on the ground. So George, let's just kind of take it through. You and I have chatted a little bit. I have so many questions.

0:02:19.5 GD: Sure.

0:02:21.3 KD: I just, I mean, I wasn't a huge Chick-fil-A fan until I learned about their spicy deluxe sandwich, mix it with the Chick-fil-A sauce. Oh my gosh. Every Saturday, Jason and I wake up and Jay says, "Kiera, what's today?" And I say, "Chick-fil-A day."

[laughter]

0:02:33.6 KD: Like it's everyday. And so George, kind of just tell us a little bit about your background. I know you're an Owner/Operator for eight years of Chick-fil-A, but kind of prior to that, you and I had chatted before. I just want the listeners to know who is George and then we're diving all into Chick-fil-A today.

0:02:47.8 GD: Awesome. Yeah. Thank you so much again for allowing me to join the podcast. So I was born and raised in Atlanta, which is the home of Chick-fil-A. Been eating it my whole life. Graduated from high school, went off to Wake Forest University, which is where I know Nate from and was commissioned into the army as an intelligence officer. Served in the army for a number of years. And then when I left active duty, some time on Capitol Hill, some time in the consulting business. And after about 10 years of that, I found my way to Chick-fil-A. I had just become kind of, it was a midlife, I guess, or pre-midlife crisis, professional crisis. And didn't find a lot of fulfillment in the consulting world anymore. Talked to a friend of mine down at our corporate headquarters about a few ideas I had and he said, "Hey, if you haven't thought about a franchise, you should. Go to this website, check it out and holler back with questions."

0:03:45.5 GD: So did that, called him back and at some point over the next 18 months of interviews, probably at many points during those 18 months, my buddy down at corporate snuck into people's offices in the dark of night and took my file from trash cans back into their inboxes and I made it through the process. And so took over the Chick-fil-A in Crystal City, Virginia, just outside of DC in January of 2015. Nate and Carrie were there that day, that morning, which means a great deal to me. And then two years ago, a little bit more than two years ago, opened up my second location in Pentagon City, which is just less than a mile from the original location that I had. And so I operate those two franchises with a team of well over 100 folks that are just incredible people who inspire me every day. They really, they make my job and my life not only easy, but it's really fulfilled. And that's me. It's me and a dog.

[laughter]

0:04:52.4 GD: A couple of nieces and a nephew and nine godchildren running around. Yeah.

0:04:54.9 KD: Oh. How fun.

0:04:58.4 GD: Yeah.

0:05:00.4 KD: George. Okay. I'm really curious. Number one, you talked about being in intelligence. So, I mean, I'm going to derail from Chick-fil-A a little bit. Tell me the craziest experience in intelligence. Like you have this like very undercover life, intelligence, Chick-fil-A, anything crazy in intelligence?

0:05:12.7 GD: So I tell people I was an intelligence officer, but not a very intelligent officer. [laughter] And the guys that I served with, they're all like, "Well, he finally got one right." [laughter] So I was a tactical intelligence officer, so I wasn't like James Bond. I was out helping commanders on the battlefield understand what the enemy was likely to do, what capabilities they had and how we would counter that. And the army was really, really good to me. Some of my closest friends in the world are from that period in my life still today. And a lot of them are still in, a couple of them are generals now, which makes me feel very old. But the army was really, really good to me. So nothing crazy. It was, I was very fortunate throughout my service.

0:05:58.9 KD: Yeah. Interesting. Well, I do feel like there's probably strategy trying to figure out what they're going to do, which probably helps you potentially in your Chick-fil-A franchise as well. So I need to know now, how do you become a Chick-fil-A franchise owner? I feel like this is a hard process because Chick-fil-A is so well known. They're so, like they're across the board. Like how long does this process to become a franchise owner and how do you even do it?

0:06:22.6 GD: Yeah, it's a very long process. It starts with an expression of interest, which is kind of like a mini application. And we have, I think the number I heard most recently was last year, we had around 108,000 people expressed interest in becoming Chick-fil-A operator.

0:06:36.9 KD: Oh my gosh. Okay.

0:06:37.2 GD: The opportunity is, this is my only job. So we are not looking for folks who have a collection of franchises and just want to add a Chick-fil-A to their portfolio. And we are looking for folks who have a lot of leadership background who can use that to.

0:07:00.3 GD: To really move the objectives and goals of the restaurant forward. We kind of rely on three things when we're looking at operator candidates, and even our corporate staff candidates, which is character, competence and community. Character speaks for itself. We wanna know that you're a person of character and that you've had that consistent character throughout your life. We wanna know that you're part of your community and that wherever you've been, that you find ways to contribute, not just the job and family and all those things, but ways beyond what others might do in the community. And the competence piece really is all about leadership. Chick-fil-A and coming in from the military, a lot of the systems they use have a very... Our training systems especially, you can tell there were folks involved in that development that had military experience. But Chick-fil-A is exceptionally good at putting a system around as much as possible. They're even better at personalising those systems and making sure they don't seem stale or systemic, so to speak.

0:08:11.1 KD: I need to know this, George. This is what I'm dying to know.

[laughter]

0:08:14.1 KD: Because Chick-fil-A every experience no matter where I'm at, and this is what we talked about, this is why I'm so giddy to talk to you. It's like, I think Starbucks, I don't know how they do for their onboarding and Chick-fil-A. But Chick-fil-A has good food. I don't drink coffee, but man, Starbucks could definitely take a look know on how to make delicious hot chocolate. It's disgusting. Probably the worst hot chocolate I've ever had. But they have an incredible experience there...

0:08:36.2 GD: True.

0:08:36.3 KD: And I love to go work there. But Chick-fil-A, you got great food, great service, people are so happy there. And I have been so giddy to know about their system. So George, explain this more to me. And of course I told George and I will tell all the listeners, Chick-fil-A is a special business just like your businesses are special. So if I ask any questions that are off radar, not allowed to talk about, George has every right to tell me, "Kiera, that secret sauce, that's a Chick-fil-A secret sauce" and I will definitely respect that. So George, you have my promise. But anything you can tell me about their systems. I love that you said they personalise the systems, but explain this to me 'cause I didn't go to the military, but the military I think is brilliant with their systems. Tell me more about these systems in Chick-fil-A. I need to know this.

0:09:19.6 GD: Yeah. I think that when we talk about competence in that suite of things we look for in our operators, competence is about leadership. It's not about having an MBA or being able to take a P&L statement and squeeze every last penny out of the P&L statement. Make no mistake about it, we are a for-profit enterprise. And that profit allows us to continue to grow and all of... Continue to compensate our people, and all of those things. But I think what personalises our systems is that we push it down to the lowest possible level, which is the restaurant. And so, my title is owner-operator. And that's because I'm expected to operate the business. This is the only active investment I have. Stocks are one thing, all of those types of passive investments. Sure. But in terms of what I do day to day, this is it. So I am in my restaurants every day, and I get to make the decisions. All of the folks in my restaurants work for me. That's true. They don't work for Chick-fil-A Corporate. Chick-fil-A Corporate has some great systems that we can employ. We have the typical ones that any small business owner like a dentist would think about when it comes to employer liability insurance or health insurance, all of those types of things, payroll. We have a centralised systems for that. But quite frankly, if my dog could speak and had opposable thumbs, he could do the administrative side of the business. I mean, it's really...

0:11:01.3 KD: That's impressive.

0:11:01.6 GD: Kinda hard to mess up. But the fact that I'm in this business every day making decisions with my leaders. If we make a mistake, if we make a bad decision, we just stop and pivot. And I think in a lot of other businesses, a lot of other kind of chain type restaurants and businesses, where that owner-operator influence is missing or is not in the restaurant every day, you don't get to do that. You have managers who may be afraid to make decisions, perhaps they're not empowered to make decisions. I took vacation earlier this year and went to Greece for two weeks for the first time. And I sent Chick-fil-A an email and I said, "Hey, everybody. Helen is empowered to make any and all decisions on my behalf. My phone will work in Greece. If you need me, call me. If I'm out in the hinterlands, picking olives and you can't reach me, then Helen is empowered to make any and all decisions. I trust her implicitly" And...

0:12:00.1 KD: That's amazing.

0:12:00.2 GD: And I think a lot of operators in our chain have a Helen on their team or several Helens that are empowered to make decisions. And we rely on in a lot of ways to ensure that our businesses operate smoothly. And so, that's I think what lends the personal to the systems. You can put the systems in place, but if folks aren't bought into them, if the systems aren't realistic and attainable the goals that you've set, if they're not measurable, then folks are just gonna get frustrated. And so...

0:12:37.4 KD: For sure.

0:12:37.9 GD: That's kinda the approach that we take. And it's worked out well. It makes... Really allows me to focus on the strategy of the business and where we wanna be in 2030 as a couple of restaurants that are in a very dynamic and growing area. How we wanna influence the area and take care of people. Because I've got folks like Helen and Alvin who operate my two restaurants for me. They do the day to day and they're empowered to do that. They empower their teams to do that. So systems allow us to focus on the things that only we can focus on, and I think that's critically important.

0:13:17.1 KD: Yes.

0:13:20.0 GD: That make sense?

0:13:20.8 KD: Yeah, I love that. That definitely helped. So, and I definitely derailed us on the systems. So let's just quickly wrap up the last thought, 'cause I'm sure people are like, "wait. She was on a path of how do you even become a franchise owner and then pushed into systems?" 'Cause I wanna know, but I really do love that you, one, took a vacation to Greece because I think for listeners, how many of you can leave your businesses for two weeks and empower an employee to make decisions all on your behalf? And to be able to have it run. And for Dennis, that means having another dentist in there, George, yes, he needs to be able to take care of these, but he has people in place to do that. And I love that they're personalized. I love that you empower them, but I also hope people listened to the fact that you are thinking of 2030 just to date, we're in 2023, so he's seven years forward thinking.

0:14:10.6 KD: And you said, "what's the impact?" Like obviously where do we wanna be financially, but you said "what's the impact we wanna make within our community." And I think when people think of their communities, impacting how do we wanna look as a business and a restaurant, that was really beautiful. So back to you sent in 108,000 people are interested in Chick-fil-A every year, then you've gotta look for your character, if I remember right, character, competency and...

0:14:33.6 GD: Community.

0:14:36.1 KD: Community. Right?

0:14:36.2 GD: Yeah.

0:14:36.3 KD: Perfect. So we look for that, make sure this has been a lifelong thing not just you're a changed person. It won't probably character that way. Okay. What else? How do you become this franchise owner?

0:14:45.1 GD: Yeah, it starts with that expression of interest. I would suspect that a number of people are not invited to do the full application at that point, simply because they may have stuff in their background or perhaps they've got that portfolio of franchises that I mentioned, that they just want to add to and that's not really what we're looking for. But then you have this 46 page application or whatever, I don't know what it is today when I went through, it seems...

0:15:08.5 KD: It's like buying a house.

0:15:09.3 GD: Seems like it was 48 pages long and you go through a series of both virtual and in-person interviews. And in those interviews I kind of employ a similar model. Not as many interviews of course, but employ a similar model in my restaurant, which is just a lot of experiential questions. The interviews that you go through for Chick-fil-A, whether it's for corporate or in my restaurants are a lot about, tell me about a time when, what kind of person are you? So, I look at it as kind of almost we're investigating into whether this person is really gonna be a good cultural fit for our restaurant.

0:15:54.7 KD: Okay. I'm gonna derail us again George.

0:15:57.4 GD: I might be derailing us.

0:15:58.0 KD: You're on such a good path.

[laughter]

0:15:58.7 KD: No, it's perfect because now I wanna know, because that was actually one of the questions I wanted to ask is how do you guys hire an onboard? So for you specifically, George, can you tell me some very specific questions for character, because I do believe that Chick-fil-A employs really great character people. So what are some of the things you look for when you're interviewing people? Some of the questions you specifically ask, 'cause I'm super intrigued by how you get such good cultures in Chick-fil-A.

0:16:23.8 GD: Yeah. If we're looking at somebody for a supervisory type role, we're gonna ask 'em questions like, tell me about a time you had to let someone go, or tell me about a time you had to have an uncomfortable conversation with someone. What was it about? We're not asking for names or anything like that, but what was it about and how did the conversation go? Were there anything that surprised you about their responses? What in their responses led you to think that perhaps this person wasn't a fit or maybe they deserved a second chance? So we're looking for everything from that character and consistency piece in those answers to also just kind of trying to figure out how they think and approach problems. So much of our business is people driven, we're in the chicken business, but really we're in the people business. And you can say that about a dental practice. You can say that about any enterprise out there. It rises or falls on people. That's the bottom line. When I walk into my dentist's office, he also has dogs in the lobby, which I think is pretty awesome.

0:17:30.7 KD: That is awesome [laughter]

0:17:31.9 GD: But when I walk in for a dental appointment, I fall asleep in the chair. So I'm not one of these people that's afraid of the dentist and the hygienists always giggle. But think about that patient who walks in who's petrified. Well, at that moment in time when they walk into that lobby, the receptionist is the most important person in the world, because how they're greeted is gonna set the tone for that entire visit. It's like when someone walks into my restaurant, how they see that restaurant in the instant they walk in. Is there trash on the tables? Are people moving quickly behind front counter with purpose to get things done? Or are they lollygagging and they don't seem like they're moving efficiently or care too much about moving you through the line quickly.

0:18:23.0 GD: Those folks that initially greet our guests or our patients are the most important people in the world. And they set the tone for the entire visit. And so we are looking for people who have a history of humbly serving other people. We're looking for folks who have, higher emotional intelligence because they're dealing with people. This isn't a... We're not a software company, we're not gonna sit in cubicles. We have to interact with the public and in one moment we could have 56 teenagers from Boston walk-in who are here for a school tour, which happened yesterday morning, all at once. In the next minute it could be Ms. Sandy, who's our favorite guest, and she comes in every afternoon at 4 o'clock for un-sweet tea to drink on the way home. And in the next minute, it could be someone who just lost their job and they don't know what's next and they're just looking for somebody to smile and be nice. And so you have to look for people who have the experience and the ability to pivot in those types of conversations and types of interactions. And, so the questions that we ask are all focused on those types of things.

0:19:47.8 KD: I love that.

0:19:48.0 GD: Everybody interviews well, Kiera. When we're dealing with young...

0:19:51.3 KD: They do.

0:19:51.6 GD: People, especially our schools have taught everyone to interview well, the problem is they haven't taught a more thing worth it.

0:19:57.9 KD: So how do you know George? Tell me. [laughter] I would agree on that. I definitely agree on that. So that's what I'm curious, how do you specifically, you have a 100 employees, you've got a lot, I'm sure you hire quite often. I'm sure you've become pretty good at this. Any one, two or three key things that you're like consistently, if I find this or I hear this, I either will hire or won't hire. Are there any things that you found in the patterns, just over time hiring good characters?

0:20:23.5 GD: Well, the first thing that bumps everybody else or everybody up in our hiring process to a higher notch is if they are referred from someone else on the team. Your existing employees are 99 times out of a 100 not going to refer someone that they, one, don't wanna work with themselves, two, someone that's gonna embarrass them. So we love word of mouth referrals and we get a lot of those from our employees. We get a lot of 'em.

0:20:51.0 KD: Awesome.

0:20:51.0 GD: And we've reached this really sweet spot in the business where we have a lot of word of mouth referrals. The other thing we look for are the people who just don't do anything outside of work or school. We get a lot of, "Hey, so what do you do in your free time?" "Hang out with my friends." "Okay, that's nice. I'm glad you have friends, but are you in the band?" Or "If you're older and you have kids, are you doing anything with your kids after school? Are you the T-ball coach or are you helping out with the girl scouts or whatever the case may be?" We are looking for those types of things that show that they are part of a community outside of just going to work and going home. Again it...

0:21:39.3 KD: Interesting.

0:21:39.5 GD: It feeds into the idea that you have the ability to interact with people from all different types of backgrounds at different stages in their day or in their week or in their life. And that's really important to us.

0:21:55.5 KD: Yeah. Interesting, that, it's so fascinating and I appreciate you sharing because that was my next question of how can you guys... Okay. Lovingly and bluntly, the fast food industry doesn't usually have a strong of a reputation. I did work at KFC and A&W in my days and I literally cried the day I quit 'cause I enjoyed it so much. It was my first job outta high school and I was the flow queen and I surely loved every minute of it. But I also know working in fast food, that it was gross and there were things that I did not enjoy and I worked late hours and we had a fun time. I was young, but what do you guys do? And I wanna know from today, but also prior, what has Chick-fil-A done to have such happy teams? There is a rumor going around that it's faith-based, but is it more PTO? Is it that... What do you guys do to make such happy teams overall?

0:22:53.5 GD: Yeah, so well, I think, that the first thing we do is we set clear expectations that are attainable. And we've reached this strange point in society, where on some level we have a group of employers out there that seem afraid to ask or maybe society at large feels afraid to ask people to work hard.

0:23:19.3 KD: They are. So tell me how you do it.

0:23:19.9 GD: It's kind of weird.

0:23:21.8 KD: And it's this illusion, it's weird.

0:23:23.0 GD: Chick-fil-A hard work. Our restaurants do volumes that haven't been seen anywhere else in the restaurant business per square foot.

0:23:30.4 KD: That's awesome.

0:23:30.8 GD: But also just in general. There's always a line. The size of lines are often unpredictable. It's a hard business and it's a hard job.

0:23:40.0 KD: They stand outside for hours [laughter]

0:23:41.5 GD: That's right.

0:23:42.3 KD: They sit there, they bring you your food, they clean up. I'm like, how do you do it? Because it's not one, how do you get your team to work hard, because... So you're right. I do think that it's becoming, I feel like a millennial 2023 trend of let's work as lazy as we can and make the most that we can. And I don't believe that all of society actually enjoys that. So I'm curious, do you guys do it differently? Tell me.

0:24:05.0 GD: And I'm not convinced that much of society really enjoys that, to be very honest with you, it's something we've almost convinced ourselves of. It's just simply not true. People want clear expectations. They want goals that are attainable. And the leader's job is to do that, but also to make sure they're resourced appropriately so that they can achieve those goals. And that's everything from training to stuff that works. When I walk in my restaurant and one of our six fryers is down, it's not just that a fryer's down and will just use the other five, it messes with the whole rhythm of that the busiest day part of the or the busiest hour of the day.

0:24:47.2 GD: And so, when you can set those clear expectations, you set goals that are attainable and people are resourced correctly. The last, not the last but the other critical component is people have to feel genuinely valued and appreciated. And so day to day it's little things like just genuinely saying thank you. It is ensuring that you have ways to... We talk about resourcing, ways to resource them and to grow them professionally but things that they can also take with them outside of the business. We have a relationship with Point University, which is an accredited university in Georgia. It's an online university but my employees can go to college for free.

0:25:35.8 KD: It's incredible.

0:25:37.3 GD: They have to have a certain GPA and a couple other things. But provided they meet all of those, all of that criteria, they can earn an associate's degree, a bachelor's degree, or a list of several certificates, professional certificates that they can carry, they can keep in my business or they can carry other places. This helps me in my business, because I have people who have elevated thinking, who have better time management, who have more critical thinking skills. But it also helps them, they know... Now, look it's not Harvard, it's not like they're gonna go down the street. But what they've got, you...

0:26:13.0 KD: But I still think any education is good, it teaches them discipline.

0:26:17.1 GD: Get out of...

0:26:17.5 KD: All those pieces.

0:26:17.8 GD: What you put into it and so I think... There's the traditional ways to motivate, reward and invest in people like good pay, competitive pay and benefits. And we do all of those things, for us, one of our [chuckle] one of our things, especially with our high school kids, "Hey, why do you wanna work at Chick-fil-A? , I just love the food. Hey man, I'm with you." That is, yeah. [chuckle] But I think the other piece of it is that culture piece, people need to feel valued, not just for what they do, but for who they are. And we work really, really hard at that. We know our team members. We know their kids. We... Little things. They seem to be little things, but they're not. We took our leaders, last year we had a we closed my Crystal City location for renovation. And we ended up collapsing two teams into one team. A lot of people got a lot of paid time off because, we couldn't have, we just didn't have the room to have all these people in one restaurant. But it was all...

0:27:40.6 KD: Sure.

0:27:46.6 GD: We were very deliberate about it. It was all very even everybody got the same amount. Everybody got a lot. But we were bringing two teams together and we realized very quickly that they need to know each other as human beings outside of the restaurant and outside of the business, and outside of just trying to push 'em together. So we took all of our leaders, 22 of them, out to Linden, Virginia, which is about an hour and 10 minutes west of DC near the Shenandoah Valley. And we took 'em horseback riding. Now look, this was $70 a person. This is not an expensive entry.

0:27:57.3 KD: Right.

0:27:57.6 GD: And then with dinner, it was a little bit more but we, I still have people asking, when are we doing it again? We're probably gonna do it again in the fall. But it's one of those things, it's like I've, I had an number of people come to me and say, "Hey, that was on my bucket list." And it's a very easy and simple thing to do, but we have... We've exposed people to something that they otherwise never would've had the opportunity, probably never had the opportunity to do. And it was really easy. It's like, this isn't that hard. And so I think, all of those types of things, are really, really important to demonstrate to your team that I care about you as an individual, not just as the person who rings up the next customer or who preps the next patient. So I can come in and do my dental thing.

0:28:55.3 GD: And so I think all of that stuff lends to a culture. Culture is, the culture starts with the top leader. It's gonna start with the dentist and a dental office. It starts with me and my restaurant. And for me, I am... I've been around and been on this earth far too long to not have fun at work and to not... It's, what I mean...

0:29:23.8 KD: Me too.

0:29:27.8 GD: And I think that hopefully that's contagious. And yeah, there are gonna be days that aren't fun. We all know that, there are gonna be days where everything just seems off. But if I can come in here every morning with positivity, with genuine care for my team and my customers alike then that's gonna it's gonna snowball. That'll... What rolls downhill? Well, culture roll downhill too [laughter] And so I think that...

0:29:44.9 KD: It does, [chuckle]

0:29:45.4 GD: That piece is really, really important.

0:29:49.9 KD: That's awesome. On that same note, George, I appreciate just all the information, 'cause I think what I pulled the most from that section was to love people and to care about them as people and this little things. And, giving them opportunities, experiences, really caring about them as a person. And that is, that takes to me, intentionality. It's very easy to give someone benefits and pay. It's not easy to get to know them. I would ask all of our listeners right now, do you know George has a 100 employees and he probably doesn't know every single one of them, but at least knows something. Do you know the families of your team? Do you know what they like and what they don't like? Do you know the things that they're striving for in their personal and professional lives? Because I do feel when you know people, they're more invested in you because you're invested in them. So that was beautiful. And I am curious, George, with all your hiring with all these people, you've got lots of people coming and going, how do you identify those that you wanna have as managers and acknowledge and reward your high performers? How do you sift through hundreds of people and give them opportunities? What's some, what are some of the tips that you guys do through the Chick-fil-A experience, to reward high performers and identify managers?

0:31:01.7 GD: Sure. Yeah. So I think that it, when it comes to the high performers, obviously we have our evaluation processes that we go through there are that system. It's like payroll and Aeropay and good paying benefits and all those things, Its...

0:31:16.9 KD: How often do you have that, George? Just out of curiosity?

0:31:20.0 GD: Yeah. And, that's...

0:31:20.7 KD: Totally, okay.

0:31:21.2 GD: That's one where, if you're newer on the team at a more entry level position, it's gonna be a much more simple process. Much simpler process for your leader above you to fill out. I think it's, it all becomes to about sphere of influence. Yes, I have more than a 100 employees. I can't know them all as well as I would love to.

0:31:47.2 KD: Nope.

0:31:48.6 GD: I think the average person, probably four to six people that... Having that kind of sphere of influence is really, really important. So I focus my efforts very intentionally on my two managing directors who lead each restaurant. My financial return director who works across both restaurants, we have a marketing person as well, works across both restaurants. And then I've got a couple of operational managers in each restaurant that I focus very intently on. And then the expectation of them is that next level down, that next four to six people, that they're focusing just as intently. And so I'm relying and so on and so forth. And so I'm relying very much on my subordinates to identify that talent. And it's gonna start with one, servant leadership. Are you willing to do what you're asking everybody else to do? And Kiera, I'm gonna test you. Here we go. I'm gonna ask the question here, young lady.

0:32:45.9 KD: Okay please do, I love this.

0:32:46.5 GD: All right. What is the one thing in my restaurant, I have never done?

0:32:52.9 KD: Oh.

0:32:53.4 GD: Well, there is one thing I've never done...

0:32:54.1 KD: Oh, you've done it all, I guarantee you.

0:32:55.4 GD: I've never worn the cow suit. Now, maybe...

[laughter]

0:33:01.1 GD: Everything else I've done. I have bread a chicken, I have fried chicken. I have sold chicken. I have ordered chicken. I've put away the chicken. I have fixed toilets, I have cleaned toilet. I've done everything else.

[laughter]

0:33:12.1 KD: Just not the cow.

[laughter]

0:33:12.8 GD: Maybe this will change, well...

0:33:15.4 KD: This year.

0:33:15.5 GD: When I buy a new cow costume, maybe the first guy in the cow costume will be this guy. But...

0:33:21.6 KD: That's fair. That would get a little...

0:33:23.7 GD: But after that, no, I'm not doing that.

[laughter]

0:33:26.2 GD: I'm not doing that.

[laughter]

0:33:29.9 GD: I got a whole host of high school kids who are more than willing to hop in the cow costume, and...

0:33:32.7 KD: Oh, I'm sure. [laughter]

0:33:34.0 GD: I've washed the cow costume, by the way. I've taken it home and literally washed it myself by hand, but cow costumes are not for me. But I think that's really important. That's servant leadership, where you're showing folks that you're willing to do what you're asking them to do is critical. And it's not just that you're showing them what you're... That you're willing to do what they're doing, but you also do gain a true understanding of, okay, what am I asking this person to do for eight hours a day? I'm asking them to stand on their feet and fry chicken, this is not an easy, standing on your feet for eight hours a day alone is not an easier or wonderful thing to do, but these are hard physical tasks in a lot of cases and so you need to understand how that impacts the operations, how that fatigue impacts them, impacts their safety, impacts their morale all of those types of things. And so I think we're looking for folks who are willing to do everything that they're asking other people to do, and do it well, and have an understanding of the challenges that other people have in those roles, the challenges they may come into the restaurant with on a day-to-day basis based on what's going on at home. And then how can they help them through that?

0:34:56.0 GD: How can they help them be successful at work. And so that's what we're looking for in our leaders. We're most likely, unless you're coming from another Chick-fil-A, we're probably not gonna hire you immediately as a supervisor, at least, at the same level that you were at at another business. We may hire you one level down and we'll be very... We'll be very open about this, but hey, look, we promise you, you may be... You may have been the best, pick a franchise manager in this last role that you had, but our restaurant is probably doing multiples of the revenue that that restaurant did. So the challenge that you face here and the people you're gonna be supervising here, the numbers of people you're gonna be supervising are that much greater, so it doesn't translate exactly. So we're gonna bring you in at a lower level and we're gonna make sure you can handle it, and you can grow in the business. And then we've got, through Chick-fil-A, we have a really great training system called Pathways. And it's the fundamental kind of, it's online, it sets the tone and the stage for all the fundamental things you need to know to work in the business, it's got different...

0:36:13.9 KD: How does that process work? Do you... So I'm a new hire. Is it a month process? Do I learn the breading? Do I learn the culture first? How do you guys walk them through this? I've been super intrigued by this, because it's consistent experience across the board. So I'm guessing there's a consistent training process too.

0:36:30.5 GD: Well, the process is... Yes, by and large it's all fundamentally the same. How operators may do it in their restaurants may vary a little bit in terms of timing and all those types of things, but...

0:36:41.6 KD: Sure.

0:36:41.9 GD: For us, we bring folks in first couple of days as orientation, where we're walking them through our expectations, walking through our culture and getting to know them. That piece is really, really important. We're gonna make sure that they have people to...

0:36:55.4 KD: Interesting.

0:36:55.8 GD: To be with during that first two or three weeks of work, not just somebody shadowing them or them shadowing someone to make sure they know what they're doing, but also, hey, who are you gonna eat lunch with today? We don't want you to be lonely your first few weeks of work. We want you to get to know people and really establish relationships with folks so that if you have a question that you might perceive as a dumb question, there are no dumb questions, but if you're sitting there as a new guy and you may be afraid to ask, and we want you to have someone trusted up here, that you can go, hey, how many squirts of strawberry is into a strawberry milkshake? We want you to have someone to ask those questions of, and you may be afraid to ask a manager, so we work very intentionally on that, and we put them through part of the Pathways. And the Pathways is great, it's online. You're not gonna go online and learn how to make a milkshake.

0:37:50.5 GD: You've gotta get your... You've gotta grab a cup and the spinner and go to making a milkshake, by the way I've done that in the restaurant. They don't like it when I do that in the restaurant, 'cause I'm terrible at it and I end up making a mess...

[laughter]

0:38:04.0 GD: So we're gonna walk you through that process first on Pathways, and then we're gonna walk you through actually doing it in the restaurant with one of our trainers. And we've got several trainers in each restaurant, they've been in the business for a long time...

0:38:18.6 KD: Cool.

0:38:18.9 GD: It's not all that they do, but when they're doing it, that's what they're focused on. And they're gonna walk you through and make sure that you are trained to not just our standard but to your comfort level, on how to do these tasks. And so it really the first month is an awful lot of training and an awful lot of familiarity and getting comfortable with our systems, our processes and our team. That part is also really, really important.

0:38:56.0 KD: That's super fascinating to me, George, because I feel in dental offices... Which is very ironic to me, that we might under-staff in a way, because I know whenever we hire somebody, it's like we needed them five days ago, so, "Hi, welcome. Super happy to have you. Good luck" And I'm like, "Okay" not to discredit fast food, but I'm like, "You spent a month training these team members" and I think that that could be a different piece, 'cause we talked before, there's Chick-fil-A and McDonald's, you and I chatted about this before. And it was very much a... You both sell chicken, you both sell chicken nuggets, you both sell strawberry milkshakes, you both sell fries different kinds. But there's a lot of similarities between the two, why is there a literal cult following of Chick-fil-A. I'm sure there's a McDonald's, but it's not as public, it's not as well-known and it's a very different experience.

0:39:48.5 KD: Chick-fil-A, would never... I would literally be appalled if I walked in and I had to go enter on a kiosk, I can go to a table in order if I want, but that's my choosing. It's not... And there's someone who's super happy and cheery, but the fact that you train for a month and you give them a buddy and you teach them culture, plus before that, 'cause I've thought, what do you guys do to create and cultivate a consistent culture of just happy people? And I think it's one, you hire really well at the beginning, you ask further things, you're looking for the red flags, you want people dedicated to their community, then you spend a month training these people. And I would feel if someone invested in me that much, I'm going to be comfortable, I'm going to be confident. I've made friends, I'm more bought into it before I actually have to go be the main shebang up there. And then after that, you guys are working hard to cultivate and to have... You've got basically supervisors or leaders over four to five people. So, it's a smaller group that they're over, that they're intimately knowing that they're invested in their lives, and that's how you're able to grow, to scale, to cultivate. So, I am curious what happens when you have someone who, say an under performer? They're not fitting the culture, they're not smiling when the guests come in. What do you do with those people, George?

0:40:58.5 GD: Yeah. I'm glad you asked that because I think it's really, really that 30 days, there's obviously a method to all of this, and I would imagine it's... We're all under the gun. We all get overcome by the current crisis, by the current set of patients that are coming in the door, by the current set of customers that are coming in the door. The easiest thing to say, "Ah, we'll get to it later is training," that 30 days and that time that we are spending with those new employees. And it's not just one trainer assigned to one employee for those 30 days. It's a number of different people that are working with that employee, that's when you identify if somebody's gonna fit. It is... We know within the first two or three weeks that this person is gonna be a fit or not, and if they're not, we'll just say, "Hey, dude we think this isn't it for you?" And we know that because we're observing them very intently during that training process. And I think it would be even... It's probably even more difficult in the dental office where folks who are coming into the door to work, all of them have credentials already. You have to be...

0:42:06.9 KD: Most of them, yeah, except for the front office.

0:42:08.8 GD: Except for the front office. We're licensed as a whatever.

0:42:09.5 KD: They're pretty good like the rest. Yeah.

0:42:09.8 GD: You're either the dentist, or you're a hygienist, or whatever the case may be. But you have, presumably, because you have the certification, you should know what you're doing, and so it's much easier to just go out like you're certified your good. But I think that it really gives you the opportunity, taking that intentional time with them, to show them where things are and to show them how you want patients curated in your chair, so to speak. I think it's really... It also gives you the opportunity to see, "Okay, is this person gonna do that? Are they gonna fit in?" 'Cause look, you're either gonna know that in 30 days or you're not. And so for us, if it's beyond the 30 days, and we've still got someone on our team, and let's say there are three or four months in and they start to slip, at this point, we know them well enough to sit down and go, "Okay, what's going on?" Is this a problem that we have with one of our systems?

0:43:07.7 GD: Is it something that can be retrained? Is it something that's going on outside that they're bringing into the business? Or is this something that we can't correct? Is it something that we're just... For whatever reason, we're not gonna be able to ensure this person conducts themselves to our standard? And at that point we'll help promote them to customer, so to speak, and we only wanna do that in a way that honours them. This is an individual who has spent time with us, and we want them to leave feeling good about their experience with us, and so we work hard to make sure it's also an investment. Any person you bring on, you are investing a significant amount of time, energy and money bringing them into your business, and so you lose them and that money is... That's gone. So...

0:44:04.5 KD: I heard someone tell me the biggest cost on a business is the cost of turnover. And I'm like, "I would agree with that it's."

0:44:09.0 GD: And that's not just financial, it's emotional too. This is why it takes people so long to fire someone.

0:44:14.7 KD: Correct.

0:44:14.7 GD: Because you are also admitting that on some level, you failed too. And that is really hard for us as leaders and as human beings to do sometimes say, "Yeah. I failed." Now, we have people that, yes, on occasion, someone sneaks in and you're like, "Oh no, that wasn't me, that was all them." But by and large, it's tough to let people go for a lot of reasons, but one is that you really... You're also recognizing your own vulnerability. And so, I think that 30 days though... I think that initial orientation and onboarding is really, really critical to understanding if someone is gonna fit in the culture or not. And I would think it's much harder...

0:45:01.1 KD: I think it's brilliant.

0:45:01.4 GD: I think it's much harder in a smaller organization like a dental office, where you have fewer personalities, fewer people and fewer personalities, and so it's even more critical that that person fit the culture. I can move people around to different shifts, I can even move people around to different restaurants if I need to, if I think, "Well, we got them in the wrong one, let's get them over there 'cause it's a different culture and they'll thrive there." But in a dental office of five or six people or even 10 people... You really...

0:45:34.2 KD: Good luck.

0:45:34.8 GD: You really gotta make sure that that person is gonna fit that micro culture set of theory.

0:45:42.0 KD: Completely agree. I think the things I really took away from this were like, really be intentional on my hiring. Be intentional and ask harder questions, not just tell me about your experience, tell me when. And then I also think something else I really loved was to be intentional with my onboarding. And I started thinking of like, what's harder? Is it harder to throw them in and put a bandage where I think that they're going to thrive versus training them and getting them to be super excellent or letting them go if they're not going to be excellent at the beginning. As you said, scheduling though, George, this is like a totally off tangent now. I'm just gonna get like geeky on checkbook. How do you schedule all these people? Do you guys have a software? Do you have an Excel spreadsheet? Like I would imagine there's gotta be a software.

0:46:23.3 GD: We use HotSchedules.

0:46:25.4 KD: Of like...

0:46:26.3 GD: HotSchedules. And HotSchedules sinks into our payroll system and all this other stuff and it sinks into our forecasting system as well, which is really... This is part of that, my dog, if he had opposable thumbs and could speak, could probably do a lot. I say that and scheduling is one of the hardest things in the business because you are putting people and what you know about our people and teams together and it, I say it and it's not as easy as I make it sound, but.

0:46:54.5 KD: Scheduling is was a beast. That's why I'm like, I have 35 employees and I'm like, "Oh my gosh." I'm like, I can't imagine a 100 different schedules, shifts all across the board, people coming and going, vacations. [0:47:04.0] ____.

0:47:04.1 GD: The nice thing about HotSchedules is the schedule goes out and the employees can trade amongst themselves at certain levels and that makes things a lot easier than having to come say, "May I have this day off or may I have that day off?" And then trying to figure out how we're gonna backfill. We basically set the schedule and tell them, "Hey, if you want time off, you gotta find your replacement for that shift." But it is...

0:47:29.4 KD: So smart.

0:47:30.8 GD: You are putting a lot of different considerations with 60 to 70 variables in each restaurant. Right? 60 to 70 people in each restaurant and all of their considerations all in it at the same time. And a lot of that is just really critical with your leadership, knowing your team. "I know this person. We have this huge event happening this day, and I know this person is really good at making sure those huge events happen and happen well, and this person is much better at one-on-one with the customers, so let's make sure we have person A instead of person B." So you've gotta put all that stuff together.

0:48:08.0 KD: That's amazing.

0:48:09.1 GD: And my team, my leaders do a really exceptional job of it. They make it very personal and it's... They do a really nice job of it. I have a ball.

0:48:17.5 KD: George, I can tell you, just love the people you work with. I can tell you love your business like you have so much fun. And that's what I think... If you're not having fun, don't be doing it out.

0:48:28.4 GD: There are days where in every business and there are days where you're just like, "Whoa, what just happened?" And we get... Every once in a while get crazy folks coming in and into the restaurant and all that kind of stuff and things break and whatnot. But middle of COVID, I was talking to a friend of mine who's a corporate guy, and he was working from home and Zooming everything and isolated and super, just... He was just frustrated and down. And he was like, "Yeah, how do you do it?" And I was like, "What do you mean? How do I do it?" And he's like, "Well, how do you... He's like, "I'm really struggling." And I'm like, "Brother, I'm not because I just... I mean, we stayed open."

0:49:10.4 GD: I just go into my restaurant and I see my team every day and these people, they inspire me so much. I mean, they just have this love of the business that is... And we share it and they do a... Just they work, they have this love of hard work and they really have this love of each other. And I think that piece, we really, really... It's just a privilege. I mean, it's a privilege to lead these folks and it's a privilege to spend time with them every day. And we do, we have a whole lot of fun and life is too short not to. You ain't having fun. You're doing it wrong. Even if you're in a dental office. I mean.

0:49:55.7 KD: I feel the exact same way. There's so many things you have said that I'm hopeful that people, while listening about Chick-fil-A, we all have this like, obsession with Chick-fil-A. So many people love it. One of the girls, I asked her, I said, I told my team, I said, "I'm podcasting with a Chick-fil-A owner. I'm so excited." And she wrote and she said, "I'm sure it's their pleasure to podcast with you." And I laughed so hard. But I feel like so many things you said are so applicable to dental practices. So, George, as we wrap up, I just wanna do a little rapid fire, random questions that are not even business related, but I just think they'll be fun and they're just Chick-fil-A. Like let's just like geek on Chick-fil-A. First question. As a Chick-fil-A owner operator eating Chick-fil-A for your whole life, what is your favorite thing on the menu currently today as George?

0:50:41.0 GD: It is and always has been our number one meal.

0:50:43.3 KD: What do you love from Chick-fil-A.

0:50:45.1 GD: Yes. I just, I mean, I grew up with it. I go back with our number one, I'm 48. I go back with our number one meal. Just dropped my phone. Sorry about that. I go back with our number one meal for a good 46 years or whenever I had enough teeth to chew sandwiches. And it's number one meal [0:51:04.3] ____.

0:51:05.3 KD: Do you have like a special sauce you put on it? Do you have a certain sauce or you just want like plain Jane Original?

0:51:07.3 GD: [0:51:07.3] ____ sauces. I do the Chick-fil-A sauce a lot, but I also have gotten into one for one ratio of Polynesian and Buffalo. Yeah. It'll change the world.

0:51:21.6 KD: Oh, okay. I'm excited.

0:51:23.0 GD: [0:51:23.0] ____ Poly and Buffalo.

0:51:24.2 KD: Saturday is Chick-fil-A day. I'm not far away from this.

0:51:27.1 GD: And I'll tell you what, I'll tell you the other thing.

0:51:28.8 KD: Alright. On your sandwich. Tell me.

0:51:30.0 GD: I was in a training session yesterday with a bunch of other operators and some of their staff and one of our corporate folks. And we were talking about, I think the question was if you could wave a magic wand and have one thing in the restaurant, what would it be? And my thing was robots to deliver. But the other thing was...

0:51:50.7 KD: Oh, that'd be awesome.

0:51:51.1 GD: And I've thought about doing this. I never have. I think a Polynesian milkshake could be pretty impressive. Polynesian sauce and vanilla milkshake.

0:52:00.8 KD: Wow.

0:52:02.0 GD: Now, this is... Don't you guys listening to out there in the Ethernet, this is not a Chick-fil-A item. [laughter]

0:52:08.9 GD: I might have received...

0:52:09.9 KD: It is not.

0:52:11.5 GD: A text message last night from one of my managers who was at this training session, who might have said that she tried it, who might have said it tasted a little bit like an orange Creamsicle maybe. But you didn't hear it from me.

0:52:24.5 KD: No. Wait, okay. I did not hear it from you. It's not a Chick-fil-A thing. Okay. Interesting. And also on that, this is like another rapid fire. How often do Chick-fil-A owners operators do training? Are you guys once a quarter, once a year? How often do you guys do trainings?

0:52:37.0 GD: Wel so we... That's a really good, that's hard to answer 'cause there's a bunch of development stuff that we get to do that we can do that we can opt in and out of. We as a market meet, once a quarter. And so there's 80 of us in the, 80s or so of us in the DC market. We meet once a quarter. We meet with corporate at an annual conference where there's a lot of development that goes on. We talk very little about business, it's called Next. We talk, we hear from our senior leaders in Chick-fil-A. We hear from a lot of really great speakers. Everything from personal care and self care to... Sorry about that. How to care for our team.

0:53:16.1 KD: That's okay.

0:53:17.2 GD: And, our teams and then we meet, our business meeting is called RPMs or Regional Planning Meetings. And we meet once a year for those. And that is, what's the strategy for the next year and how do you build your business plan around it. But I'm glad you asked that because the other thing I would say is...

0:53:33.0 KD: Super cool.

0:53:34.6 GD: I make it very... I'm very deliberate about visiting other owner operators in the area a lot. And we're all friends is really, but I would encourage and...

0:53:44.8 KD: Smart.

0:53:44.9 GD: I'd take my leaders too. And sometimes I just send them over to see other folks, "Hey, so-and-so does this really well. Go over and see how they're doing it." If I would encourage anyone on this call, if you've got friends in the area who are in the same profession, go see how they do things. Talk to them about it. Go visit their offices.

0:54:04.9 KD: Agreed.

0:54:05.2 GD: Send your folks over there. They will feel... Anytime I send my team members over there, to other restaurants to see how things are getting done. They always come back. One, they come back with great ideas. "Hey, they do this a little differently, let's try that." But two, they feel invested in, "Oh my gosh, George trusts me to leave the restaurant. Right? You can't sell chicken outside of my restaurant. It happens inside the restaurant. Right? You can deliver it, but you can't sell it outside the restaurant. So George trusts me to leave the restaurant and go get good ideas from these other businesses." They feel invested and they come back, they come back refreshed, they come back, they have fun doing it, and they come back. They always come back with good ideas. And so empower folks to do that. Establish those relationships and go do it.

0:54:53.7 KD: That's such...

0:54:54.1 GD: You'll be surprised what they come back with. You will be, trust me.

0:55:00.2 KD: Well, and I love that you don't see them as competition. You see them as like, "Let me go learn from them." So, okay. George, my last rapid fire question, this has been... I mean, I'm just, I love everything I've learned. So what are the most popular things that are not on the menu? Like a diet Dr. Pepper slushie. I just need to know, I didn't realize that there was even a secret menu. So what are the most popular non-menu.

0:55:20.0 GD: I fear that it will become the Polynesian milkshakes. And I'll get calls from 5600 Buffington Road. But, so a lot of it lately revolves around TikTok. So the one that we are getting a lot lately is folks order Mac and cheese, chicken nuggets and fries. And then there's Sauce du jour. And they ask for a salad bowl and they mix it all together. They close the salad bowl, they shake it up. And they create their own, like mega entree. I have not done that yet, but I probably should just to see. So there's... We used to get a lot of requests...

0:55:57.5 KD: I agree.

0:55:58.5 GD: For a spicy biscuit. And now we're kind of rolling all that out and a lot of stores already have it. We'll have it pretty soon. But people would ask for a spicy fillet on just on a regular biscuit. So we used to get a lot of requests for that. So that stuff is coming out. Yeah, I'm a big fan of the...

0:56:20.3 KD: That's crazy.

0:56:21.1 GD: I'll do a diet frosted lemonade, but I'll put two squirts of strawberry in it. And it really is when it really turns into a really nice, almost like a low cal strawberry shake. It's kind of surprising how the strawberry kind of...

0:56:40.5 KD: That's amazing.

0:56:40.8 GD: It's a little tangy, but it's not, it's not like super tangy. It kind of eclipses the tang of lemonade. Yeah. You may wanna try that on Saturday. I know, you may wanna try that on Saturday.

0:56:52.3 KD: I'm definitely Saturday Chick-fil-A day for [0:56:54.7] ____.

0:56:55.0 GD: You don't have to do diet. I have to do diet 'cause I'm... My metabolism is shut down.

0:57:00.6 KD: No, well, I mean, the lemonade's a little sweeter. So I do tone it down a little bit, but George, this was such a fulfilling podcast for me. I love Chick-fil-A, but more than that, I love you as a person and the passion that you have for business and for teams and for growing people. I am obsessed with finding business owners who love their teams, love what they're doing. And I wanna just highlight one thing as we wrap this up. You and I chatted at the, when you said the Marriott family and the Kathy family. So Marriott owns the Marriott hotels and the Kathy families who started Chick-fil-A. They're not just family-owned, but family-operated. And I think that that was one of the most cool takeaways of all of this, of the passion, the love, the investment that you have in these restaurants in your team. And I just wanna say thank you for sharing all of your Chick-fil-A knowledge for making all these dreams come true for all of us.

0:57:51.4 GD: Well, thanks for...

0:57:52.3 KD: It was truly a pleasure. It was my pleasure, actually truly [laughter] truly, I just appreciate you much being here today.

0:58:00.2 GD: Okay, thank you. I really appreciate the opportunity to speak to you guys and, it's, I'm super happy that Nate introduced us. Anything you need in the future, please don't hesitate to give me a shout.

0:58:10.0 KD: Oh, you better believe when I come to Atlanta, I'm hitting up your Chick-fil-A and we're gonna give you a huge hug [laughter] So guys, I just appreciate George and I appreciate all of you listening. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time on The Dental A Team podcast. And that wraps it up for another episode of The Dental A Team podcast. Thank you so much for listening and we'll talk to you next time.